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Old 03-14-2014, 06:20 AM
 
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If this European federation becomes a reality, it will be in a very long period of time, must pass several generations.

Of those 10 countries you have mentioned, I highly doubt citizens from Portugal and Spain would accept that Superstate for the moment, euroscepticism is booming there, and the pro-EU are only the 30% of the population.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tagus Crows View Post
It's not gonna happen, don't worry, at least in those terms.

I don't think that is possible for a number of reasons.

First of all, Europe is not the USA. There's several nations-state in the old continent, while arguably there's only one nation-state in the new world. Second, the EU only works out of respect to each one's particular individualities; that is exactly what is not happening now, because there's a pan-germanization of Europe all over again, this time without guns, but with the larger economy crushing the smaller ones. This is painfully wrong. Third, and again following the second, another problem that is happening in the EU right now is that all countries are producing the same things, instead of focusing in what they do best, at regional levels.

You probably don't realize, but Europe's main advantage all over the world is exactly the richness of its diversity, and EU only gains to protect that. So if EU advances to another level, it should be in terms of single military defense and probably tax and bank policies. In political terms, all countries should remain independent.

I'm pro-Europe (well, not this EU anyway) but i don't necessarily need to speak English to feel like a citizen of a Union, if you know what i mean.

Again, that ideia of a single sports team - you're killing Europe's diversity. That is the opposite of prosperity.
I beg to differ… The EU has progress to the point where they can only either move close towards a federation or untwine the whole integration process that has been going on for 50+ years.

This is the 21st century which a lot of emerging countries with massive and young population are rapidly developing. In comparison, the European countries' population are either declining or not growing much at all. Furthermore, the demographics are aging rapidly and the workforce will eventually shrink.
Take a look at UN's population database.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ure_population
In 1950, 13 EU countries were among the world's 50 most populous nations.
By 2050, only 5 EU countries will be in the world's 50 most populous nations.
Individual European countries will simply lose their positions at the international stage, especially when Europeans are used to quite high living standards (compared to rest of the world), failure to maintain a powerful presence at the global forum will further undermine their well-being.
By integrating into a single nation, the European superstate will at least remain as a global superpower which can rival the 3 major future economic powerhouses in the world: China, India, and the United States.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:29 AM
 
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By integrating into a single nation, the European superstate will at least remain as a global superpower

Most Europeans couldn't care less becoming a "global superpower". Maybe that kind of imperial dreams turn on some neocons in Washington, but not most of the populations on the planet, European or not. And besides : there is no European "Manifest Destiny". Europeans are not destined by the Allmighty to remain forever the dominating powers and the Masters of the World. As you stated yourself, "times they are 'a changin'"...and more and more Europeans are getting weary of the alienating consumer society and of the rat race, and are more into "small is beautiful"....
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
Another institutional problem : Europe has a variety of constitutions : there are constitutional monarchies, federal republics (Germany) , centralized republics (France). In order to have one federal european state, it should be necessary to harmonize all that. But I don't think to have an example that the British would be happy seeing their queen bowig in deference to the new Emperor or President or Leader of Europe. Just my opinion.
Monarchs can still exist under a Superstate as Sub-monarchs… you can take a look at Malaysia's system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchies_of_Malaysia

For federal republics like Germany, it currently has 16 states. It can simply enter the Superstate as 16 states as the first level administrative division.

For centralized republics like France, it can enter the Superstate simply as one entity. If adding an additional level of government is bad, it can remove the next level of government, so for France, the current first level-administrative division of 27 regions can be removed like this:
Originally: France -> 27 regions -> 101 departments
Superstate: Superstate -> State of France -> 101 departments
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Daywalk View Post
Individual European countries will simply lose their positions at the international stage, especially when Europeans are used to quite high living standards (compared to rest of the world), failure to maintain a powerful presence at the global forum will further undermine their well-being.
By integrating into a single nation, the European superstate will at least remain as a global superpower which can rival the 3 major future economic powerhouses in the world: China, India, and the United States.
But you think Poland, Spain, Romania, Portugal or Greece have a powerful presence at the global forum? No, and most of them don't even care.
If France and Germany can lose their hegemonic position in the world, is their problem, they are the ones who have to worry about, not the rest of the continent.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by victus View Post
But you think Poland, Spain, Romania, Portugal or Greece have a powerful presence at the global forum? No, and most of them don't even care.
If France and Germany can lose their hegemonic position in the world, is their problem, they are the ones who have to worry about, not the rest of the continent.
The problem is, the current EU or Eurozone cannot remain as status quo forever as the treaties create a lot of imbalances and problems if the members do not function as a country with unified banking and tax policies… so Europe either untwines or moves towards a single federation.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:48 AM
 
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Seriously… why do all the Europhobes reject fiercely everything the EU stands for?
Please take a look at Viviane Reding's speech.

EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Speech - Towards a federal Europe: what we can learn from our central banks

Viviane Reding
Vice-President of the European Commission, EU Justice Commissioner
Towards a federal Europe: what we can learn from our central banks

3. The need for a political union

Last edited by Rozenn; 03-14-2014 at 07:33 PM.. Reason: Copyright
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Pérouges
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Originally Posted by Daywalk View Post
I personally think this integration into the European federation is inevitable
I personally think this integration into the European federation is highly unlikely.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:05 AM
 
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Even Bulgaria supports European integration:
Ukraine crisis shows importance of European integration, Bulgarian President says | The Sofia Globe
The situation in Ukraine shows the importance of the European integration process for Europe and the world, Bulgarian President Rossen Plevneliev told the National Assembly in Sofia on March 14 2014.

He was speaking two days ahead of a planned referendum in Crimea on secession from Ukraine and accession to Russia, a move by leaders in the autonomous region that has been rejected widely in the democratic world.

“Bulgaria should contribute to the development of integration and peace. Bulgaria is an important factor in the region,” Plevneliev told Parliament.

The people of Ukraine alone had the right to decide their future by conducting fair elections, he said.

The European Union and the United States were relying on diplomacy, while Russia had responded with tanks and occupation of Crimea – the approach of the communist state – and it was possible that Russia would base an unlawful annexation of Crimea on the planned March 16 referendum.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:09 AM
 
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Bulgaria ???? ah yes our friends the comitadjis, who in the 1st world war entered Macedonia to murder Serb families...doesn't surprise me, they always layed against their team (the Slavic world)...
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