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Old 03-17-2014, 11:11 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,799,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litri View Post
Problem is that the EEC reminds a lot to the EEC project drafted by the Third Reich.
Maybe; of course, this would be considered to be an example of the Reductio ad Hitlerum/guilt by association fallacy.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:23 AM
 
81 posts, read 108,979 times
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Have you read The New Europe devised by the Third Reich? If not your statement is an example of the Invincible Ignorance fallacy.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litri View Post
Have you read The New Europe devised by the Third Reich?
No, not yet.
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:08 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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I am strictly opposed to such a superstate idea. The EU is already a giant economic-fascist mess often working against Europeans' interests. The bigger a unit, the bigger the problems. It is a natural law so to speak. Just look at the mess the US is. No need to copy that.
And unlike in the US Europeans never have been one unit, quite to the contrary. We have had many wars to finally be different and independent from each other. Most people don't want to give that up, just so some people can fill their pockets. I mean, one thing is very clear, it is all about money, nothing else. Culturally etc. there is no reason whatsoever for a union.
And, also unlike the US, we have the problem that we have dozens of languages and cultures, i.e. most countries would feel like the few big countries would consider the rest of Europe their empire or colonies. There is already such a feeling today to a certain extent.

If anything, we need to undo the entire EU as it has gone way too far already.

People like Barroso should be ******ed.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:45 AM
 
2,973 posts, read 1,977,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I am strictly opposed to such a superstate idea. The EU is already a giant economic-fascist mess often working against Europeans' interests. The bigger a unit, the bigger the problems. It is a natural law so to speak. Just look at the mess the US is. No need to copy that.
And unlike in the US Europeans never have been one unit, quite to the contrary. We have had many wars to finally be different and independent from each other. Most people don't want to give that up, just so some people can fill their pockets. I mean, one thing is very clear, it is all about money, nothing else. Culturally etc. there is no reason whatsoever for a union.
And, also unlike the US, we have the problem that we have dozens of languages and cultures, i.e. most countries would feel like the few big countries would consider the rest of Europe their empire or colonies. There is already such a feeling today to a certain extent.

If anything, we need to undo the entire EU as it has gone way too far already.

People like Barroso should be ******ed.
The U.S. isn't in a mess… It was quite successful in the 20th century. Recently, it suffered from the financial crisis and it is still recovering. You can see that it's economy is definitely doing better than Europe.

In terms of cultural differences, many countries do have different cultures. The EU has tried to accommodate the differences between EU countries.

English, French and German will be the Superstate's official languages at the national level as they are the de facto working languages of the EU now. All other European languages will be official at the sub-national level in their respective territories.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:51 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daywalk View Post
The U.S. isn't in a mess… It was quite successful in the 20th century. Recently, it suffered from the financial crisis and it is still recovering. You can see that it's economy is definitely doing better than Europe.

In terms of cultural differences, many countries do have different cultures. The EU has tried to accommodate the differences between EU countries.

English, French and German will be the Superstate's official languages at the national level as they are the de facto working languages of the EU now. All other European languages will be official at the sub-national level in their respective territories.
No, that won't happen, there would be wars and terrorism if anyone even tried that. Europeans love their countries, it is in no way comparable to US states (Britain and Spain for instance are as different as the US and Brazil). Most Europeans are already at the limit of what they are willing to accept...
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:42 PM
 
81 posts, read 108,979 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I am strictly opposed to such a superstate idea. The EU is already a giant economic-fascist mess often working against Europeans' interests. The bigger a unit, the bigger the problems. It is a natural law so to speak. Just look at the mess the US is. No need to copy that.
And unlike in the US Europeans never have been one unit, quite to the contrary. We have had many wars to finally be different and independent from each other. Most people don't want to give that up, just so some people can fill their pockets. I mean, one thing is very clear, it is all about money, nothing else. Culturally etc. there is no reason whatsoever for a union.
And, also unlike the US, we have the problem that we have dozens of languages and cultures, i.e. most countries would feel like the few big countries would consider the rest of Europe their empire or colonies. There is already such a feeling today to a certain extent.

If anything, we need to undo the entire EU as it has gone way too far already.

People like Barroso should be ******ed.


Europe achieved unity under the Roman Empire, then certain unity under the Carolingian Empire and the western part was rather united by the Catholic Church until the Reformation.

With the reformation and religion wars came a ceaseless bloodshed, and then came the worst of evils, romanticisn that brought extreme nationalism...

But Europe is indeed 100 times more uniform now than 40 or 50 years ago.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:31 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litri View Post
Europe achieved unity under the Roman Empire, then certain unity under the Carolingian Empire and the western part was rather united by the Catholic Church until the Reformation.

With the reformation and religion wars came a ceaseless bloodshed, and then came the worst of evils, romanticisn that brought extreme nationalism...

But Europe is indeed 100 times more uniform now than 40 or 50 years ago.
Exactly, it has always been more unified during imperialist empires, i.e. against people's will.

Luckily that is not the case. So far the countries manage to resist most uniform aspirations of the elite, to whom Europe is nothing but a giant market. But those people won't stop in their efforts to turn Europe into yet another boring continent like North America.
I am working on my emigration to Brazil, I prefer the poverty and chaos there to the vision of a unified Europe.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:13 PM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,400,866 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daywalk View Post
The U.S. isn't in a mess…
The U.S. is absolutely a political mess. There are too many large groups with their own idea of how society should be shaped, all favoring a U.S. that best serves their social and political interests. Whoever loses, majority or minority (religion, race, ethnicity, political affiliation, etc.) their needs become suppressed and their perspective becomes one of oppression. Objectively, the system is highly flawed and innately unjust. The tension is high.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:29 PM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,400,866 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litri View Post
With the reformation and religion wars came a ceaseless bloodshed, and then came the worst of evils, romanticisn that brought extreme nationalism...

But Europe is indeed 100 times more uniform now than 40 or 50 years ago.
There is no objective rationale for stating that nationalism is the worst of all evils. In fact, communism, the antithesis of nationalism, is responsible for tens of millions of more murders in the last century. Objectively, using only the death data, communism and its associated social and economic ideals are the worst of all evils.

Would you say that the arguably the most nationalist ethnostate in the world, Israel, is the worst of all evils?

One of the benefits of nationalism is that it creates a political environment in which the government's actions take into account the interests of the overwhelming majority of its citizens, if not all of them. Wouldn't you like to live in a country wherein the government was there primarily to serve the overwhelming majority of the people? This is the only model in which that occurs, and that prevents minority power groups (bankers, any other group that decides to advocate for only their interests) from taking over and governing in a manner that is often counter to the interests of most of the populace, as most often occurs under governments wherein there are large, disparate groups. In the latter type of state, it becomes a game of who can better bully their fellow nationals. All people deserve self-determination.

I don't find uniformity a positive trait. I enjoy cultural diversity in the world, which is only preserved by borders.
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