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Old 04-17-2022, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,787 posts, read 4,150,701 times
Reputation: 1742

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I recollect soviet propaganda madness built around defense of Brest fortress during ww2. A rather military insignificant stand by the encircled soviet troops that lasted for 1 month or so. Russian propaganda put soviet ww2 propaganda in overdrive on Brest. How come, much unlike Brest fortress, Russian propaganda makes emphasis on the alleged surrender and not on 1 month long defense against overwhelming Russian nazi forces?

It is a genocidal war to destroy Ukraine and Ukrainian people. Ukrainians have no choice but to fight Russian fascist vermin or it is gonna be Ukraine sized Bucha and Donbas where thousands of people just disappeared without any international aproar after Russian nazi thugs took control in 2014. It would take a large scale mobilization to defeat and control Ukraine. Sign up.
Oh yeah. Heroes heroically hid behind the backs of local civilians for a whole month . What a country, such heroes. And about the genocide is just ridiculous. Russian soldiers are risking their lives by taking civilians out of the combat zone. Many died in the process. But you don't want to see it.
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Old 04-17-2022, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,676 posts, read 4,833,075 times
Reputation: 4880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
This is war. More than 1,000 soldiers of the Ukrainian army surrendered this week in Mariupol alone. If you think that Ukraine has a chance, you are wrong. The only question is the number of victims on both sides.
I thought it was a special operation? Or did the Russian media finally start calling it for what it is?
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Old 04-17-2022, 07:14 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,063 posts, read 106,870,458 times
Reputation: 115814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
This is war. More than 1,000 soldiers of the Ukrainian army surrendered this week in Mariupol alone. If you think that Ukraine has a chance, you are wrong. The only question is the number of victims on both sides.

Quote:
Reuters
Russia demands surrender in Mariupol as pope laments 'Easter of war"

Sat, April 16, 2022, 8:34 PM

By Alessandra Prentice and Natalia Zinets

KYIV (Reuters) -Ukrainian soldiers resisted a Russian ultimatum to lay down arms on Sunday in the pulverised port of Mariupol, which Moscow said its forces had almost completely seized in what would be its biggest prize of the nearly two-month war.

More to read:

Russia sets 0300 GMT deadline for Ukraine troops in Mariupol to surrender
Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said troops in Mariupol were still fighting despite a Russian demand to surrender by dawn.
Ukraine hasn't surrendered, though the deadline demanded by Russia has passed.
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Old 04-18-2022, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,787 posts, read 4,150,701 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I thought it was a special operation? Or did the Russian media finally start calling it for what it is?
This is a special operation from an organizational point of view. The war has not been officially declared by Ukraine and Russia. Russia has not introduced martial law and is not mobilizing. The bulk of the soldiers from Russia are contract soldiers. But from a military point of view, this is war.
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Old 04-18-2022, 03:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,676 posts, read 4,833,075 times
Reputation: 4880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
This is a special operation from an organizational point of view. The war has not been officially declared by Ukraine and Russia. Russia has not introduced martial law and is not mobilizing. The bulk of the soldiers from Russia are contract soldiers. But from a military point of view, this is war.
Hmm ok, I guess that makes some sense, but seems like most countries don’t declare war these days anyways yet most people still call them as such.

For instance the US hasn’t declared war since 1942, but participated in plenty of military conflicts which most Americans openly call “wars” and not just simple “military operations”, most notably;


Vietnam War (1955–1975): 47,434 US combat deaths
Korean War (1950–1953): 33,686 US combat deaths
Iraq War (2003–2011): 4,424 US combat deaths
War in Afghanistan (2001–2021): 1,833 US combat deaths
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Old 04-18-2022, 03:55 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,063 posts, read 106,870,458 times
Reputation: 115814
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Hmm ok, I guess that makes some sense, but seems like most countries don’t declare war these days anyways yet most people still call them as such.

For instance the US hasn’t declared war since 1942, but participated in plenty of military conflicts which most Americans openly call “wars” and not just simple “military operations”, most notably;


Vietnam War (1955–1975): 47,434 US combat deaths
Korean War (1950–1953): 33,686 US combat deaths
Iraq War (2003–2011): 4,424 US combat deaths
War in Afghanistan (2001–2021): 1,833 US combat deaths
I had to look up the Korean War, to see why it wasn't an officially declared war by the US. Turns out, it was a UN war, that the US eventually took the lead on.

Quote:
President Harry S. Truman quickly committed American forces to a combined United Nations military effort and named Gen. Douglas MacArthur Commander of the U.N. forces. Fifteen other nations also sent troops under the U.N. command. Truman did not seek a formal declaration of war from Congress; officially, America's presence in Korea amounted to no more than a "police action."
The Vietnam War started simply as the US sending "advisors" to South Vietnam. Then more "advisors" were sent. Then it escalated into a full-blown war. So, by the way it gradually built up like that, from mere military "advisors", its would be hard to know at what stage in its development Congress should step in and declare it an official war, vs. support to the South Vietnamese military, who were the ones who were supposed to be doing the fighting for their own country.
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Old 04-18-2022, 04:21 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,541,343 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post

Bandera did not fight with Nazi Germany, but welcomed them and helped them in the early stages. But, of course, Germany did not need aggressive local allies who organize pogroms in Lvov and are unruly criminals and bandits.
Once it became clear that Germans did not support Ukrainian statehood Bandera chose concentration camps to collaboration. Pogroms were organized by Germans, it is a well established fact. To precipitate city wide violence, Germans allowed public to access NKVD prisons filled with thousands of corpses of the city residents freshly murdered by retreating soviets. The number of pogrom victims was less than the number of NKVD victims in Lviv alone. Throughout Western Ukraine retreating soviets murdered 100 thousands ++ of prisoners, mostly civilians soviets captured after occupying Western Ukraine in 1939 Those were Stalin' filtration camps, Putin' nazi troopers try to emulate 83 years after in Ukraine. This is to say that you hinting on some sort of "moral" superiority of the Soviet/Russian empire as compared to German nazis is absurd. Collaboration with soviet/russian fascists was and is just as reprehensible, if not more, as collaboration with German nazis. We can only hope that Russian fascism of Putin will stand trial much unlike Stalin' communo fascism.
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Old 04-18-2022, 05:12 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,541,343 times
Reputation: 7457
As for Ukrainians troops "hiding behind civilians" nonsense, the evidence is out there for the world to see that Russian nazis prevent civilians from leaving the battle zones.

But I want to talk about this Russian black & white inversion using Russian witness accounts. Apparently an aspiring yet barely known Russian author decided to join Russian military after failing to launch a successful literary career. Yet, he's made enough of impact on the narrow circles of the literary connoisseurs for his death by Ukrainian defenders to deserve a separate article in an obscure Russian literary online journal. Here is a telling excerpt (translated by google)

During a reconnaissance raid behind enemy lines, a unit of marines and special forces was surrounded. During the day from March 14 to March 15, Lukin Ivan held back the enemy outnumbered by constant machine-gun fire, protecting the lives of civilians who had taken refuge in the basement of the building.

Per Russian perverted logic, If a Russian nazi trooper fire at ukrainian troops from a building packed with civilians he's "defending" those civilians, nevermind those civilians were quite ok prior to the Russian invasion, he is not using them as a living shield. Why? Because he's a Russian. A modifier "russian" turns crap into honey, treachery into a noble act, and murder into "defense" of the innocent. Russian reality inversion 101. Keep in mind that http://moloko.ruspole.info/node/14820 is not an obscure town forum, it is a place for the aspiring Russian authors to publish their unlikely to be read literary pieces. Russian fascism kills brain cells no matter who you are, all I can tell.

Last edited by RememberMee; 04-18-2022 at 05:32 PM..
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Old 04-29-2022, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,787 posts, read 4,150,701 times
Reputation: 1742
Delete from Russia/Ukraine war (MERGED THREADS), there's a serious discussion .



https://youtu.be/-eKdRrKotdI
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Old 04-29-2022, 03:41 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,295 posts, read 14,184,455 times
Reputation: 10013
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I thought it was a special operation? Or did the Russian media finally start calling it for what it is?
Since the end of WWII, formal legal declarations of “war” have been exceedingly rare.

Up until 1947, the US had a Secretary of “War” when it became Secretary of “Defense”.

I remember back in 1990 - yes, I am that old - , the US blockaded Iraq, but Secretary of State Baker refused to call it a “blockade”, insisting on the term “interdiction” instead because, he said, the term “blockade” implied a formal legal “declaration of war”.

In 2002, I believe, the US Congress passed “authorization to use force” to legalize, from the US point of view, the second invasion of Iraq.

Russia is invading Ukraine to seize the regions of Luhansk, Donetsk, southern Zaporozhia, Kherson, and maybe Kharkiv, Nikolaev, and Odessa.

We’ll see what the Poles do with western Ukraine in the coming weeks and months; they may call it peacekeeping.

What’s his name who said, “What’s in a name?”
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