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As the Observer ( the newspaper) commented "In reality Putin is a zero sum thinker. He believes what is bad for the US is good for Russia. His view of the world is conspiratorial, shaped by a long career in the KGB.
When Ukrainians demonstrated against their corrupt president, Victor Yanukovych, late last year Putin saw not a popular protest but a CIA plot. A pro-western government took over and Putin annexed Crimea. Then he unleashed an uprising in the east. In recent weeks the Ukrainian army has pushed back the rebels. In response Putin has supplied them with tanks and-it seems surface-to-air weapons to shoot down Ukrainian planes"
While all this killing and chaos is happening Putin's friend, Yunukovych, is in Russia happily spending the billions of dollars he looted from the Ukrainian treasury.
Whether or not the rebels meant to shoot the plane down or not is irrelevant erasure, the fact is that they did. You can't excuse the inexcusable. The behaviour of the rebels at the crash site has only reinforced the worlds view that these separatists are, as a BBC reporter said at the crash site, "a bunch of drunken thugs"
Instead of whining about Putin that and that, why not stick to the subject/question at hand? I am still waiting for the US evidence that it supposedly has which proves that these "drunkards" rebels were the one who shot down the plane. I think Russia has already presented its side of the story yesterday which proved there indeed was a Ukranian fighter jet in the vicinity, even as Kiev previously denied it.
I am curious why the US has not released the satellite images that would conclusively prove that the Buk missile was fired from territory held by the rebels. I am also curious why the Ukrainian authorities have not done so either. Lots of loose lips so far from both of them but no hard evidence. All the while, the western media like CNN and BBC alternate between bashing Putin (who has his own faults, I agree) and implying that somehow Russia was responsible. This is usually the soft method of western brain washing. The satellite images would be conclusive but no one has seen them. Where are the evidence?
My heart goes out to the victims and their families, but I'm not holding Malaysian Airlines guiltless in this senseless loss of life. What the HELL was the pilot doing flying a commercial airliner through a known war zone - in an area where planes have been shot down RECENTLY and on a regular basis??????
All Ukrainian military aircraft which have been shot down were due to portable shoulder-fired Igla infantry SAM missiles. The Igla has a max ceiling of around 3.5 km (11,000 ft), when the Malaysian plane was flying at 10 km (33,000 ft). It was quite acceptable to presume that flying on the boundary of the stratosphere was safe.
Air travel and fuel is expensive, and commercial airliners fly over war zones all the time, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, you name it. The only countries' airspace that is avoided is Syria, Somalia and North Korea. Russian Aeroflot was the company that flew most in the Eastern Ukrainian airspace, so even the Russians thought that it was safe to fly over the closed airspace, which is set as 32,000 ft.
I think such kind of proof will be the strongest one. But I haven't seen it yet. What the rebels themselves (their leaders) are from our territory is a real thing and that itself makes us partly responsible in any case.
Instead of whining about Putin that and that, why not stick to the subject/question at hand? I am still waiting for the US evidence that it supposedly has which proves that these "drunkards" rebels were the one who shot down the plane. I think Russia has already presented its side of the story yesterday which proved there indeed was a Ukranian fighter jet in the vicinity, even as Kiev previously denied it.
I am curious why the US has not released the satellite images that would conclusively prove that the Buk missile was fired from territory held by the rebels. I am also curious why the Ukrainian authorities have not done so either. Lots of loose lips so far from both of them but no hard evidence. All the while, the western media like CNN and BBC alternate between bashing Putin (who has his own faults, I agree) and implying that somehow Russia was responsible. This is usually the soft method of western brain washing. The satellite images would be conclusive but no one has seen them. Where are the evidence?
agree.
I was closely watching Canadian media coverage about this issue and it just shocks me that they pretty much talk as if it has been proven that Putin is responsible for the tragedy, without showing any concrete evidence. I guess since it suits their political anti-Russia needs, evidence is redundant. I even think western media is collectively happy to some extend about the accident because it provides a golden opportunity to occupy another moral highground and attack Russia, whether this whole thing has anything to do with Russia being completely irrelevant.
No tragedy is worse than the other. I see no need to compare.
The whole country is in mourning right now. Literally everyone is talking about it. We've had terrible plane crashes before, like the Afriqiyah crash in 2010 that killed 70 Dutch citizens, but nothing of this scale.
Most people seem to believe this was an accident, that the rebels shot down the plane thinking they had hit a military target. It's tragic, of course, but accidents do happen. What is far worse for me (and many others) to accept is the indignity with which the victims are treated. I have never seen anything like this in a supposedly "civilized" country. Imagine that is your mother, father or child laying there, stripped naked, for four days in sweltering heat while locals and tourists are taking pictures of the remains and posting them online. Imagine turning on the TV and seeing journalists rifting through the deceased's possessions while others are looting and stealing whatever they can. Imagine drunken trigger-happy rebels controlling the crime scene and restricting access to independent investigators while more and more evidence is being destroyed. It's all so frustrating to witness this from a distance.
Spot on Linda. I am actively repulsed and angered by what is happening - the people in that part of the world appear to have no respect for the dead, or for anything. At least their bodies should be on their way home shortly. I just hope their bodies are able to be identified so their families can have some closure at least.
Although you make some good points, it still doesn't address the question of why they didn't identity their target before shooting it down. That's what one does in any "civilized war" (yeah I know the term is oxymoronic). Secondary radar identifies a target. Why didn't they use it?
Identifying the target would not have necessarily made any difference to the mindset of that region. They might still have shot the thing down regardless! The Russian pilot had identified KAL 007, even to the extent of seeing two rows of windows on the thing, but Russians being Russians shoot first and lie later....
that Putin is responsible for the tragedy, without showing any concrete evidence.
He is responsilbe, because he sent the rebels or let them go to the territory of the other state. He also responsible for the picture we have in mass-media here.
The picture, which influenced some hot heads here and urged them to go and fight with the "Nazis".
But it will be good to have
Quote:
the satellite images
to answer the question: "Is he responsible for sending them the missile"? If they stole it themselves from the territory of our neighbor, our responsibility becomes narrower.
All Ukrainian military aircraft which have been shot down were due to portable shoulder-fired Igla infantry SAM missiles. The Igla has a max ceiling of around 3.5 km (11,000 ft), when the Malaysian plane was flying at 10 km (33,000 ft). It was quite acceptable to presume that flying on the boundary of the stratosphere was safe.
Air travel and fuel is expensive, and commercial airliners fly over war zones all the time, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, you name it. The only countries' airspace that is avoided is Syria, Somalia and North Korea. Russian Aeroflot was the company that flew most in the Eastern Ukrainian airspace, so even the Russians thought that it was safe to fly over the closed airspace, which is set as 32,000 ft.
Several major airlines from several countries have been avoiding that exact airspace since the spring.
Now everyone is - but my point is that a few airlines had already realized the danger and changed their routes months ago. I wish Malaysian Airlines had been as astute.
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