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I certainly can't imagine living somewhere where I'd be actually afraid. I've been a little bit afraid in the UK but for no good reason, and now I'm so used to walking down the road at 3am without a care in the world.
What does nothing to do mean?
There´s plenty to do if you want to.
And I live in a town with only 20000 citizens.
Agree. I live in a slightly bigger town, actually 60,000 if you consider the outlying municipalities consolidated into ours. Sure, this is no New York City or Helsinki when it comes to amenities and opportunities, but the quality of life is still very decent for an average person. Crime is easily avoidable, very little random violence. You can live amongst people that actually form more or less a community, not just a collection of people who live for themselves only. So much to do, unless you simply choose to rot home and get bored.
Scandinavia is not all similar, and I don't get why people think it is "boring". Maybe it is boring to visit as a tourist, but to live it is not boring. Normal US cities are in fact way more boring than cities in Scandinavia. Also, people here talk about the countries as they are all the same, they certainly are not.
The most difficult country is Sweden. The places that may hire foreigners are the big cities. Small cities will always prefer a local. However due to combination of rent control and massive numbers of asylum seekers then it is almost impossible to find a place to rent in the big cities. If you find a place, it will be very expensive and hence your standard of living will drop considerably compared to America. That is only if you have a good paying job, if you have a low salary don't expect to be able to balance the budget at all. Not only that, but it is hard to get to know locals, crime has become a problem and most public institutions is overburdened.
Denmark is slightly better choice. They also have rent control, so it can be hard to find a cheap place in Copenhagen. But its not like you have to turn down a job offer, because you can't find a place to live. However, I found Denmark to be slightly disorganized. Graffiti has destroyed many places, garbage is often not cleaned up, and a lot of things are not explained. For instance, you need a tax card before starting employment, but no one tells you that and the website is only in Danish and is extremely badly made. Luckily you can just go down to the immigration advisers and they will do it for you. Don't move to Denmark if you get a low salary in Copenhagen. It is almost impossible to keep monthly expenses below $3000 due to rent being at least $2000, which means you need a gross income of $3700 per month to break even. The issue is that many jobs do not pay that well, and then you need two incomes to even be able to balance the budget. But at least the Danish health care system is quite good and cheap so you don't have to worry about that.
I think Norway is clearly the best choice. The main disadvantage in Norway is that things are expensive compared to Sweden and Denmark. Expect to pay more for everything. However if you don't mind a small place, then you can get much lower rent than in Sweden and Denmark because there is no rent control. Salaries are in general higher, so that means it much easier to have a decent standard of life. But it still will be hard to get to know people, understand the system and get a job if you are not fluent in the language.
Scandinavia is no paradise, it has its own problems. But it is hard to see that if you just have been visiting the country. Also, it much easier if you have a family in the country as they can help you find a place to live, or to give you insider deals. While rent is much more expensive in Denmark and Sweden for an immigrant, some places are extremely cheap and you can get those places with contacts.
I have to disagree with Ariete a bit there though, there is no reason why Latvia and Lithuania should be included if Estonia were to be included. The "Baltic States" with the inclusion of Estonia is, as far as I understand a concept invented by the Soviet Union and that Estonia is not specifically related to Latvia and Lithuania in either culture or language. Lithuania and Latvia are the only true Baltic countries so to say as they speak the Baltic languages. The Estonian language is Finnic.
Estonia is really something in between, it has been part of Denmark and then later Sweden for a long time, but after that a part of the Russian Empire for a long time and then after 2 decades of independence, Russian again as part of the Soviet Union.
Thanks to the Soviet Union many Scandinavian influences in Estonia are gone, before the occupation by the Soviet Union there used to be a significant Swedish-speaking community of thousends of people on the Estonian islands, but today there is only a few hundred Estonians who speaks Swedish as their native language. The rest fled to Sweden where they have remained since. Today Swedes are only the 21st largest ethnic group in Estonia, very few Estonian Swedes in Sweden have decided to return to the roots on the Estonian islands.
And as Ariete says, their economy is not comparable to any of the Scandinavian countries. But its absolutely different from Latvia and Lithuania in all aspects including language, culture, ethnicity, history and economy.
Regarding religion today, Estonia is just as atheist and secular as Scandinavia, but the public does unfortuently have a more conservative stance on LGBT rights thats foreign to Scandinavians, allthough there is progress there too like recently recognizing civil unions between gay couples last month, with rights comparable to marriage.
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 11-06-2014 at 08:25 AM..
They are probably fantastic countries to live and work in, but I have witnessed some bizzare situations in there.
For instance, few years ago, while I was in Stockholm:
There was a young (probably 16-17 year old) girl in the middle of the street crying. Not loudly and obnoxiously, but she was obviously very upset. She literally stood there crying for couple minutes and absolutely no one gave her any attention. None. As if she was invisible. I was the only person to go up to her, but she didn't want to talk (or at least in English). Shortly after, she left.
Afterwards I felt kind of bad, why wouldn't anyone stop and check on a lonely upset person on the street? Seemed like everyone was too busy with themselves and didn't care at all.
One thing I like about the Americans and southern Europeans is how open and communicative they are. What's wrong with wanting to socialize and connect with people you might not be friends with? How is that fake?
There are a few more similar ocassions I've witnessed, but not as drastic as this one. My point it that these parts of Europe can be a bit antisocial, but then again the same thing could be applied to Russia and the rest of eastern Europe.
I agree. I myself am not from the "friendliest" of cities[Baltimore], but even we encourage people to be helpful if they need to be.
Yeah, people can be rude and standoffish at a glace, but they can be warm and hospitable if caught in a situation like the one you came across in Stockholm. Depends on the individual...
In general the Dutch state of happiness and world rankings are the same as the Scandinavian countries. The welfare state is largely similar but there are some differences.
Our system is basically the same in terms of social welfare. But we do have more room for individual development and are less concerned about everybody being equal, and the state 'thinking for you' what is good and what is bad (like alcohol). And yes, that also means health and education is not fully funded by the state through taxes alone. We have to pay a part ourself. But luckily for education there is a support system for the poor, and for health there is a compulsory insurance system so everybody can get basic treatment. We have one big (really big) issue and that is the overheated housing market and large debts.
But basically you are right, when I am in Denmark (quite often) or Sweden (sometimes) I never have to think about adapting to the society. It goes automatic.
Thats because "Scandinavia" or even "the nordic countries" is a mere geopolitical/economical label. The dutch themselves are a very nordic people, in terms of culture, heritage and way of thinking, which often goes along not exclusively regarding single stats such as wealth of the nation or income, but involves a whole freedom of thinking and social progressivism. For example a country like switzerland is just as rich and healthy as scandinavia but lack of the social progressivism and freedom of choice/thinking that the Scandinavians or the Dutch have. I consider the Dutch to be quite scandinavian even without being part of scandinavia geopolitically wise. For example I consider the Dutch people to be closer to Danes than the Finns are. There is a close-knit feeling about the societies in those countries that you dont get anywhere else.
Thats because Scandinavia or even the nordic countries is a mere geopolitical/economical label. The dutch themselves are a very nordic people, in terms of culture, heritage and way of thinking, which often goes along not exclusively regarding single stats such as wealth of the nation or income, but involves a whole freedom of thinking and social progressivism. For example a country like switzerland is just as rich and healthy as scandinavia but lack of the social progressivism and freedom of choice/thinking that the Scandinavians or the Dutch have. I consider the Dutch to be quite scandinavian even without being part of scandinavia geopolitically wise. For example I consider the Dutch people to be closer to Danes than the Finns are. There is a close-knit feeling about the societies in those countries that you dont get anywhere else.
Uh no. Dutch are as Nordic as the Germans and English and we also have things in common with France. We are not Scandinavian. You seem to be thinking that Nordic means some superior people who have a utopian ideal. Unfortunately this does not exist. I am not sure how we are more free choice or free thinking than Switzerland. Society really isn't all that open we have lots and lots of racism and conformism. Every culture has a different way or looking at things and what is free to you may be different in Switzerland.
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