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Yes, that's what that person ( and I) are essentially saying. That generation born in that time ( if not to say the society for the most part as well) became very "pro-Western," more specifically - pro-American. It was the anticipation of times so to speak, when Americans would come to Russia and help them to establish good life.
Here is yet another Russian hit popular in the 90ies - "American boy take me with you." ( Something totally unimaginable only 10 years earlier.)
No not "prior to the nineties" but prior to the 1985, when Gorbachev came along with his "Perestroyka." That's when public anti-American rhetoric was put to a stop, and the more time was progressing the more pro-American mentality of Russians have become. (Till the mid-nineties probably?) Then the reality settled in. The epiphany.
Thanks for pointing that out! But I do wonder what's going on with Russians and Putin lately speaking of which. Given what you have said, I can't really imagine those two generations going to pre-1985 American sentiment. Especially toward the American people cause that's just wrong to dislike the people! I learned that one the hard way.
This is what I meant. No, I don't hate individual Russian people and I treat them with same respect as I do to all others. I dislike the entity called Russia, especially its leadership sitting in the Kremlin. I dislike the the siloviks and oligharcs who act completely recklessly towards everything and everyone, including their own people, and having no respect for law and democracy. I also dislike the Putinist-Kremlinist parrots who spew their propaganda and try to rewrite history.
I don't like very much the Russian mindset and manners either, but I tolerate them, and for example the Russian minority in Finland I have no problem with. Actually, when Putin came to power I even thought "now the chaos might be over and Russia will become a normal Western country, nice." Bollox. Russia showed what kind of country it is. Again. First in Georgia, then in Ukraine.
The past is the past, but we won't forge.
Woah! I actually owe you an apology for what I said about you earlier! I didn't get what you were saying, but now I do and I sort of feel the same way and share similar views to an extent execpt for the mindset and manners part of what you said because I actually like that part of them! Again, I like the Russian people and their culture. The country and govt on the other hand, I do not like what it has become. An essential dictatorship ruled by Putin who is trying to restart the Cold War all over again! *sigh*
I guess it was the harshness of your first post that made me take it the wrong way. This i can agree with.
Friday night after a tough week and some beers is not always the best time to post.
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Originally Posted by Aethalstad
Woah! I actually owe you an apology for what I said about you earlier! I didn't get what you were saying, but now I do and I sort of feel the same way and share similar views to an extent execpt for the mindset and manners part of what you said because I actually like that part of them! Again, I like the Russian people and their culture. The country and govt on the other hand, I do not like what it has become. An essential dictatorship ruled by Putin who is trying to restart the Cold War all over again! *sigh*
No problem. The Cold War could've been essentially over in the US by the late 80's due to perestroika and glasnost, but here it wasn't over until 26 December 1991. And our country are among the last who want to restart the Cold War.
No problem. The Cold War could've been essentially over in the US by the late 80's due to perestroika and glasnost, but here it wasn't over until 26 December 1991. And our country are among the last who want to restart the Cold War.
What do I mean "people like you?"
People who sound the same on History forum ( and probably not only there.)
"How brutal Russians were during the WWII," "Stalin was worse than Hitler," blah-blah.
So it were not you on history forum - sorry, but you sound no different.
So please take your discussion of the WWII to History forum, figure out what "GeneralPlan Ost" was all about, and then speculate whether "Russian treatment of civilians was every bit as bad or worse."
I am sure there are people there that can enlighten you on this matter, but this thread is about the 80ies and the Cold War.
Apology accepted.
No need for speculation; history confirms the fact.
"Russian terrible reputation in handling prisoners of war".
I don't really know what German soldiers could expect given the fact that 3,5 million Russian prisoners of war died in German custody along with almost 10 million civilians.
If Russians did to Germans what the latter had done in Russia, then Eastern Germany would have a wasteland of death, it doesn't seem so honestly.
This without mentioning all the funny plans Germans had for "subhumans" Slavs in the East.
You couldn't have said it perfectly. I have been having issues with Russians when it came to the Soviet Union as others have had. Believing the Soviet Union to be the equivalent to Nazi Germany and people who were born in the Soviet Union were evil as well because they were raised to be that way.
In the same manner, Russians have been told (back in Soviet times) that America ( American capitalism) is evil. (Not that many Russians cared to hate Americans, since they never saw Americans in their lives, so it was not "personal." ( Except for some "die-hards," who totally bought the ideology.) Soviet Union ( in later times, starting from Khrushev) was nothing like "Nazi Germany." Now Stalin's times - it's a different story. But in Stalin's times the anti-American sentiment was not particularly there. If anything, there were contracts made and Americans were coming to work in the Soviet Union. Not a case, say, in Brezhnev's times, when anti-American rhetoric was high.
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My parents to a minimal extent and definitely my grandparents kinda raised me to be that way because they had that Cold War mentality of the Soviet Union being the ultimate evil of the world and the people are just as bad as the govt. for supporting the govt.
SOME were as bad as the government, and some were simply deceived.
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Same applies with Putin and Ukraine right now, BUT overtime I realized that the people are not to blame and there are some good Russians out there, especially ones in the U.S. and other countries and even in Russia itself as you said.
PART of Russians are wonderful people - probably more so than the "Westerners," because there is a very wholesome part of Russian culture, that these people carry it in them. The problem (I personally see) with Russia is that the rotten part of Russians claim to carry that wholesome part as well. People like Putin for example. But Ukraine is the whole different story.
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Not even hating a group of people, but to simply not like them period is wrong and to an extent racist! A friend of mine once told me that I had to make a decision to either like Russians or not.My choice was to like Russians obviously! Otherwise I would not bother asking this question in the first place. I like if not love Russian people and their culture because they are nice people and I have met quite a few of them that are really pleasant to be around.
Well what can I say - you were lucky))) You, apparently dealt only with the good ones)))
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Especially the ones in my generation or age group, but I have no idea why they try to literally disguise their accents with American accents just because they are in the U.S.A! Can anyone explain that one to me because that is awkward to me?
There might be a number of reasons ( with younger generation,) but most likely they are trying to "fit in."
Trust me the older generation doesn't disguise Russian accents, not a bit)))
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As for the Finnish guy or girl, he or she ought to be ashamed of his or herself because that is just plain wrong as I have just stated and as the guy I am quoting from has stated. That's equivalent to saying that I dislike all Greeks because they support their govt. and hate Macedonians just because they took the name of a province of theirs or that I dislike all Bolivians and Argentinians because they support their govt. that happen to hate America! It's ludicrous!
The truth about this "Finnish guy" is that he has a good heart and he can easily live side by side with Russians ( the good ones that is,) but fearing and hating "collective Russia" is a totally different thing.
The ultimate "good and evil" are so intertwined there, that it's not an easy country to deal with, and even less - to understand.
Thanks for pointing that out! But I do wonder what's going on with Russians and Putin lately speaking of which. Given what you have said, I can't really imagine those two generations going to pre-1985 American sentiment. Especially toward the American people cause that's just wrong to dislike the people! I learned that one the hard way.
It's not exactly "pre-1985 sentiment."
This *new* anti-American sentiment ( which is currently higher that it was ever being in Soviet times from what I remember) is rooted in the nineties, the result of "economic reforms" where American economists were directly involved and later - the expansion of NATO, American involvement in all kind of anti-Russian "color revolutions" in post-Soviet space and so on.
So now quite a few Russians from the "old guard" are saying "see? We told you so. Americans are every bit as bad as we've been told back in Soviet days. They do indeed target us, they want us to be destroyed and gone."
"Russian terrible reputation in handling prisoners of war".
I don't really know what German soldiers could expect given the fact that 3,5 million Russian prisoners of war died in German custody along with almost 10 million civilians.
If Russians did to Germans what the latter had done in Russia, then Eastern Germany would have a wasteland of death, it doesn't seem so honestly.
This without mentioning all the funny plans Germans had for "subhumans" Slavs in the East.
Americans for the most part are very poorly educated when it comes to the WWII.
My son ( born and raised in the US) was attending American public school of course, so I was watching closely American "system of education" from "K to 12." Abysmal, when it comes to history including. (And I lived in relatively "good states" in terms of "funding.")
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( Something totally unimaginable only 10 years earlier.)
and he can easily live side by side with Russians ( the good ones that is,) but fearing and hating "collective Russia" is a totally different thing. 
