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The reason why I did not use this Wiki source as any sort of validation is because of this very prominently displayed message across the top of it:
So there we go.
Kathryn...
It's a well-known fact that the US supported the mujaheddin in Afghanistan, thus helping to turn that country in a hell-hole infested with radical Islam.
So there we go.
Sorry, that is more like Manifest of esoteric Lunacy. Russia lunacies are big, but Russian capabilities are small. If Russia had the means to pursue its esoteric lunacies, the alleged evils of USA would shrink to almost nothing.
Soviets/Russians did quite a bit of meddling in the Middle East, just look at the weapons those guys fight with. Without Soviet/Russian meddling there wouldnt be ME as we know it today.
I am amazed how easy "alternative", "democratic", "anti imperialist" crowds mourn the the ME "stability" delivered by murderous strong men and maniacs. Concentration camp type "stability" is fine with them.
"democratic"?
Who on earth deemed the ME democratic?
It's obviously non-democratic and as such it is going to remain I fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
What? You think Russia hasn't created much of or added to the mess in the Middle East?
Russia was a major player in the Arab-Israeli conflict during the Cold War. Though Russia was initially supportive of the nation of Israel, believing that it would be a communist state, by 1967 Russia was back to it's original anti-Jewish propaganda. From 1985 til 1991, Russia suspended diplomatic relations with Israel altogether.
Russia has had very strong trade relations with Turkey and Iran for many years. Russia supported the revolutions in Tunisia and Egypt.
Russia is one of Syria's and Assad's most influential and important allies. Russia, along with China, has blocked UN Security Council resolutions condemning Assad's government. Russia has sold large amounts of arms to Assad's government and provided Syria with air defense systems.
Currently, twenty three percent of Russia's massive arms/weapons trade is to Near and Middle East countries and North Africa. During the Cold War, Russia supplied massive amounts of arms to various rogue regimes throughout the Middle East.
And let's not forget the Soviet-Afghan War, which went on for ten years - throughout the entire 1980s. The pro-Soviet entities instigated a coup in 1978. Hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed - probably over 1 million, and this unleashed a flood of refugees into various countries in the region. This long war also greatly instigated the spread of religious fundamentalism throughout Arab countries, in response and revolt to the atheism of communist forces and countries. Among those groups was a man named Osama bin Laden, whose group that was started in direct opposition to Soviet involvement in Afghanistan eventually became Al Qaeda.
Obviously I meant after the collapse of the Soviet Union, after which the US has proceeded to slowly erode the old-Russian sphere of influence.
As a counter-argument, it might be as well said that the US destroyed Iraq (and spectacularly failed to rebuild it) and Libya (again another failure in the state-building process), they destabilised Syria with the aid of the Gulf states and the so-called "revolutions in Egypt" turned out to create a military regime.
Without forgetting how Yemen is being bombed without anyone noticing that.
The ME is a mess, to be brief.
Kathryn...
It's a well-known fact that the US supported the mujaheddin in Afghanistan, thus helping to turn that country in a hell-hole infested with radical Islam.
So there we go.
It's also a well known fact that the Soviet Union greatly destabilized Afghanistan and perpetrated a war that created a lot of instability in the region and also resulted in over a million dead civilians.
It's also a well known fact that the mujaheddin throughout the Middle East are radicals, that they would be radicals regardless of who was funding them, or even in the face of ZERO funding from any Western entities.
It's also a well known fact that the Soviet Union was trying to establish Soviet states throughout the Middle East and that their interests were the oil there - just like everyone else's. Let's face it - if there wasn't oil beneath the surface of those godforsaken lands, no one would give much thought to what was going on there.
"democratic"?
Who on earth deemed the ME democratic?
It's obviously non-democratic and as such it is going to remain I fear.
Obviously I meant after the collapse of the Soviet Union, after which the US has proceeded to slowly erode the old-Russian sphere of influence.
As a counter-argument, it might be as well said that the US destroyed Iraq (and spectacularly failed to rebuild it) and Libya (again another failure in the state-building process), they destabilised Syria with the aid of the Gulf states and the so-called "revolutions in Egypt" turned out to create a military regime.
Without forgetting how Yemen is being bombed without anyone noticing that.
The ME is a mess, to be brief.
Well, "after the collapse of the Soviet Union" is a really small slice of history in the total scheme of things.
It's also a well known fact that the Soviet Union greatly destabilized Afghanistan and perpetrated a war that created a lot of instability in the region and also resulted in over a million dead civilians.
The Soviet Union "greatly destabilized" Afghanistan precisely because they met American support for Islamic bozos. So it was more than they could deal with with already strenuous situation. Probably, if not for this support, they would have accomplished what they were striving for. So Afghanistan woudl have been stable. Just with not the kind of political system Americans would be happy with. And since they wouldn't have been happy with Soviet version of Afghanistan, Afghanistan is what it is today.
Quote:
It's also a well known fact that the mujaheddin throughout the Middle East are radicals, that they would be radicals regardless of who was funding them, or even in the face of ZERO funding from any Western entities.
Really? And if no one would have been funding them at all?
Quote:
It's also a well known fact that the Soviet Union was trying to establish Soviet states throughout the Middle East and that their interests were the oil there - just like everyone else's. Let's face it - if there wasn't oil beneath the surface of those godforsaken lands, no one would give much thought to what was going on there.
Now let me ask you, how do Russians manage without that "Middle Eastern oil" today?
And what would have happened to the US economy, had it lost its gas station in Arab Gulf countries?
The Soviet Union "greatly destabilized" Afghanistan precisely because they met American support for Islamic bozos. So it was more than they could deal with with already strenuous situation. Probably, if not for this support, they would have accomplished what they were striving for. So Afghanistan woudl have been stable. Just with not the kind of political system Americans would be happy with. And since they wouldn't have been happy with Soviet version of Afghanistan, Afghanistan is what it is today.
Now let me ask you, how do Russians manage without that "Middle Eastern oil" today?
And what would have happened to the US economy, had it lost its gas station in Arab Gulf countries?
Russia's interest in Afghanistan has had everything to do with oil and controlling export pipelines. Surely you know that.
And that's the US interest in that region as well. And not just our interest - Argentina, India, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Japan, China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, the UK, and Australia, just to name some of the major players that have been involved in the various pipeline projects and plans.
So guess what - in the jockeying for position and pipelines, ALL involved parties have had to play nice with "Islamic bozos" at one time or the other - including Russia. "Islamic bozos" are in charge in that region for the most part, in case you haven't noticed.
Russia's interest in Afghanistan has had everything to do with oil and controlling export pipelines. Surely you know that.
And that's the US interest in that region as well. And not just our interest - Argentina, India, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Japan, China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, the UK, and Australia, just to name some of the major players that have been involved in the various pipeline projects and plans.
So guess what - in the jockeying for position and pipelines, ALL involved parties have had to play nice with "Islamic bozos" at one time or the other - including Russia. "Islamic bozos" are in charge in that region for the most part, in case you haven't noticed.
Kathryn, do me a favor please and give me some links to materials, that prove that for Russians the war in Afghanistan had "everything to do with oil," will you?
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