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Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
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In regards to the eastern half of the Roman Empire, which survived for more than 1,000 years before being conquered by Ottoman Turks, how do most Europeans feel about the fact that it was once European? What exists in its place today, a good part of it in what's now Turkey, is certainly not European. How do most Europeans feel about this, and in particular, its corollaries with events of late?
My perception is that though the most educated continent, Western Europeans are quite ignorant about Byzantium and generally about the ancient history of the continent, because of their eurocentric, euroexceptionalist blindness. Most of them still believe Rome is the foundation of Christianity and are not aware that Near East and the Balkans are the craddle of civilisation.
Byzantium was a blend of European (Greek, Balkanic) and Near East cultures in equal measure. Though most of the Byzantine civilisation developed on the Asian part of today Turkey, in Anatolia, the language was European - Greek - and the capital and cultural center - Constantinople - was on European territory.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,662,103 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by CARPATHIAN
My perception is that though the most educated continent, Western Europeans are quite ignorant about Byzantium and generally about the ancient history of the continent, because of their eurocentric, euroexceptionalist blindness. Most of them still believe Rome is the foundation of Christianity and are not aware that Near East and the Balkans are the craddle of civilisation.
Byzantium was a blend of European (Greek, Balkanic) and Near East cultures in equal measure. Though most of the Byzantine civilisation developed on the Asian part of today Turkey, in Anatolia, the language was European - Greek - and the capital and cultural center - Constantinople - was on European territory.
So how do you feel about it? And do you see an analogy with Byzantium and what is happening in Europe proper today?
BTW, Susan told me to say hello to you. I think she got deported back to Hungary or something and I don't think she can access City-Data over there.
So how do you feel about it?
BTW, Susan told me to say hello to you. I think she got deported back to Hungary or something and I don't think she can access City-Data over there.
I like Byzantium very much and studied about its history and art a lot. The year and a half that I lived in Orthodox monastery opened my appetite for it, as we were living according to 1,500 years old Byzantine monastic rules, but especially because we were chanting every day and night in church Byzantine hymns written 1,500 to 600 years ago in beautiful eight Byzantine tones. Later studied a lot from printed books (especially art monographies) and with the advent of Internet, found even more information. Following my interest for Byzantium, I also visited a lot of buildings in Turkey (including most Byzantine churches of Constantinople but various other sites across Anatolia, like Cappadocia) and Greece (Mount Athos, Mystras, Thessaloniki etc).
Quote:
And do you see an analogy with Byzantium and what is happening in Europe proper today?
Byzantine empire was living in a permanent nostalgia for its supposed previous glory (as a famous Byzantinologist noted), as its territory diminshed permanently. I see not much analogy between today Europe situation and Byzantium, as the latter was figthing for its integrity, while Europe commits a sort of suicide.
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BTW, Susan told me to say hello to you. I think she got deported back to Hungary or something and I don't think she can access City-Data over there.
Is she a member, I don't remember someone with this name.
I can agree with Carpathian on this. I'm very into history, and the Byzantine Empire is even for me quite an obscure empire that I'm not very into, compared to many other empires. Also in our schools the sack of Rome and the partition of the Roman Empire is pretty much the end of it. After that it's the start of the medieval period, the Frankish Empire and the Vikings.
In Bulgaria, Byzantine and the Greeks are worshiped and very admired. People all keep portraits of Greeks and their ancestors in their homes (well...not really .
My father was really into it. We crawled through locked off church foundations in Ravenna. Theoderich was a familiar name at dinner conversations.
Me too visited Ravenna's splendid early Byzantine churches. Ravvena is world's city with most Unesco monuments, 8 churches, baptisteries and a mausoleum, built during the Ostrogothic and Byzantine rule in city, in 5-6th century. Didn't know they have crypts as you say (if I understood you right).
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Originally Posted by euro123
In Bulgaria, Byzantine and the Greeks are worshiped and very admired. People all keep portraits of Greeks and their ancestors in their homes (well...not really .
I'm very into history, and the Byzantine Empire is even for me quite an obscure empire that I'm not very into, compared to many other empires. Also in our schools the sack of Rome and the partition of the Roman Empire is pretty much the end of it. After that it's the start of the medieval period, the Frankish Empire and the Vikings.
Indeed this is typical of most people's educational experience in western countries, both Europe and North America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat
In regards to the eastern half of the Roman Empire, which survived for more than 1,000 years before being conquered by Ottoman Turks, how do most Europeans feel about the fact that it was once European? What exists in its place today, a good part of it in what's now Turkey, is certainly not European. How do most Europeans feel about this, and in particular, its corollaries with events of late?
Like Carpathian, I too have studied the eastern Roman Empire, in fact I have a master's degree in it.
In my view at least, I have to reject the premise of your question "how do most Europeans feel about the fact that it was once European?"
What???
It seems you view history backwards. But that's okay, quite common.
Did you know that people in Greece still refer to western Europeans as the Franks, and they still call France Gall?
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,662,103 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002
How Do Most Europeans Feel Regarding Byzantium?
No feelings. Not even a thought.
Indeed this is typical of most people's educational experience in western countries, both Europe and North America.
Like Carpathian, I too have studied the eastern Roman Empire, in fact I have a master's degree in it.
In my view at least, I have to reject the premise of your question "how do most Europeans feel about the fact that it was once European?"
What???
It seems you view history backwards. But that's okay, quite common.
Did you know that people in Greece still refer to western Europeans as the Franks, and they still call France Gall?
Think about it.
Or do you want me to spell it out for you?
Since history specifies what has occurred in the past, then I'm not sure how I'd view history without looking backwards.
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