Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think we all know that there are problems in the Muslim World but it's legitimate to think that not all people in the Muslim world are the same and that the situation varies from city to city and from country to country.
For example, a Muslim living in Algiers or Oran is more likely to be more open minded to European values than someone living in the midst of the Atlas Mountains, in the same way a Muslim living in Tatarstan is on average more progressive than one living in Chechnya where Wahhabist views have spread, a Sufi isn't as likely to carry a terrotistic attack as a Salafist Sunni and so; population such as the Chechens have resorted to religion to gain independence while Kurds or Kabyles have resorted to ideals such as equality and so on who are associated with the left wing, ecc.
The Muslim world is made up by more than a billion people, by countless different branches who all disagree with each other on quite a few matters, by people speaking different languages, holding different political views, ecc. Most of us are oversimplifying a world that's harder to understand than our highly globalized one.
Absolutely spot-on! I'd already repped the previously post of yours
Location: God's Gift to Mankind for flying anything
5,921 posts, read 13,861,767 times
Reputation: 5229
Quote:
Originally Posted by improb
Agree with most of what you've said. European alliance with America is just a result of people wanting to side with Americans over Russians. That's because our people would rather be associated with a fully democratic countries (even if the president is often a schyzophrenic Republican) than a very flawed democracy which borderlines dictatorship where many rights are actually denied.
Not only *just* *siding* politically, but also liking many American ideologies ... and products !
Let me tell you,
if nobody likes McDonald, they would try one outlet and then leave ...
if nobody likes KFC Chicken cr@p, they would try one outlet and then leave ...
if nobody likes Coca Cola Products, they would try one outlet and then leave ...
But, it seems most Europeans like that stuff ! Beats me why for heaven's sake ??
We have many European friends come over on vacation in the USA and stay with us.
Guess what they like to eat ??? Stupid Fast Food and Awful Donuts !!!
You should see them grab up cheapy Jeans !!!
You really think I or anybody else here is forcing that crap down their throat ???
Europeans can always (without anybody getting mad at them) say NO not that American stupid stuff !
I did say NO !! and I am living in the USA !!
I do not like Mickey D, I do not eat at KFC, I do not eat fattening donuts and I do not drink American soft drinks !! They are called soft drinks ??? Ever read what is in that stuff ?? I think a good German beer is healthier !!
Dang ... I miss my Maracuyah (sp?) juice in Germany !!!
I miss the Dutch *Patat* and *Stroop Waffles*.
I miss the German *Aufschnitt* *cold cuts*
Get my drift ???
Start saying NO to American stuff and nobody would give a hoot if you do !!
I did not say *when*, because many Europeans won't !!
Oh well ....
Now Say NO to Islamic influence and they will get pretty dang mad at you !!!
Oh well ...
So you as Europeans, stop sending us German cars which cost a fortune to repair (they are not that reliable after all) !!
I rather drive my American made *Japanese branded* Honda that has almost 200 thousand miles on it, without anything other than a yearly maintenance cost of around 400 dollars ...
Last but not least ... I love the term *a schizophrenic Republican* !!!
Not only *just* *siding* politically, but also liking many American ideologies ... and products !
Let me tell you,
if nobody likes McDonald, they would try one outlet and then leave ...
if nobody likes KFC Chicken cr@p, they would try one outlet and then leave ...
if nobody likes Coca Cola Products, they would try one outlet and then leave ...
But, it seems most Europeans like that stuff ! Beats me why for heaven's sake ??
We have many European friends come over on vacation in the USA and stay with us.
Guess what they like to eat ??? Stupid Fast Food and Awful Donuts !!!
You should see them grab up cheapy Jeans !!!
You really think I or anybody else here is forcing that crap down their throat ???
Europeans can always (without anybody getting mad at them) say NO not that American stupid stuff !
I did say NO !! and I am living in the USA !!
I do not like Mickey D, I do not eat at KFC, I do not eat fattening donuts and I do not drink American soft drinks !! They are called soft drinks ??? Ever read what is in that stuff ?? I think a good German beer is healthier !!
Dang ... I miss my Maracuyah (sp?) juice in Germany !!!
I miss the Dutch *Patat* and *Stroop Waffles*.
I miss the German *Aufschnitt* *cold cuts*
Get my drift ???
Start saying NO to American stuff and nobody would give a hoot if you do !!
I did not say *when*, because many Europeans won't !!
Oh well ....
Now Say NO to Islamic influence and they will get pretty dang mad at you !!!
Oh well ...
It depends from country to country, for example in Italy there's no Starbucks to speak of (it did open but it went bust soon), several American staples are nowhere to be found, the only chains which can be found are McDonald (it did affirm itself very early on) and Burger King (which i feel, will overtake a struggling McDonald soon) and that's it!
Anyways, there are certainly Europeans who certainly have no problems eating at American fast foods but at the same time i know that at least here it's a minority. The same goes for American clothing but then again it may be because i live in Southern Italy instead of, say, Germany. I do get the feeling that sometimes American products are subtly pushed upon us by the medias sometimes though but you are right that we are actually free to choose, so the first half of your post is spot on.
But, there's no Islamic culture here to speak of, they aren't pushing their prayers upon us, they aren't pushing their clothing upon us (you don't see veils being sold in stores for example nor Islamic dresses), nothing is actually being pushed on us from them. Not even their beliefs are pushed on us. The only thing even remotely tied to Islamic culture that's popular is kebab shops but that's because it is up to our liking and we choose to head there instead of the fast food joint, the classical pizzeria or the fancy restaurant.
And what about the thousands whom do NOT engage in honour killings? I think you should come and visit Britain, take a stroll around Brick Lane, for example, and talk to some of the locals, maybe go to the pub as you're likely to find people who refer to themselves as Muslim too. And then ditch Fox News, Trump and all that inflammatory, ill-educated guff.
Someone mentioned Muslims wearing western style clothing so I pointed out that many young women have been killed by their parents for becoming too western. Too just say it's FOX News, etc is also oversimplifying what I wrote. Nowhere in any of my posts did I condemn the entire Muslim world although I don't agree with their religious views. Throughout their history there's been an element that wants to wipe away all other religions and replace it with Islam, or at least allow others to keep their religion in exchange for domination and monetary tribute. Someone mentioned waves of different ethnicities coming to America. What he failed to mention is that most of those immigrants either shared common religious beliefs or were tolerant of the wider culture. I'm not worried about those Muslims who are just trying to support their families and have no interest in jihad. But jihadists are out there, and in light of recent attacks, and historical attacks, to minimize the danger is putting our heads in the sand.
If it weren't so serious, this would be comical. Look at them. It's obvious they've never lived in a country that allowed protest and freedom of speech. They have no idea how to go about creating slogans and pushing their cause. The slogan "Police, go to hell" doesn't address their issue. Their cause is that a member of the community was detained for questioning, and they consider that unjust, or perhaps inappropriate, because it's a woman now in a local jail, and they don't know under what conditions she's held But instead of carrying placards that say, "Free So-and-So", and "Justice for So-and-so", and that sort of thing, they're saying "Police, go to hell". That's not the way it's done. They have no experience with devising effective slogans. All they know how to do is march and yell. They don't know how to push a cause and inform the public of their concerns.
Is it common in England for Muslim women to wear the full body and face covering?
I see the way these Sharia advocates are creating a declaration of war. All should be deported.
Apart from that what a disgusting, crazy, backward lot of of scumbags. Pointing in the woman's face over and over again. Excuse me! Plus the moron in the garbage bag saying that the civilized woman in her own country may I add is asked: "Who are you trying to seduce?!" This makes my blood boil.
What the heck are these people doing in a 21st century country anyway. I think this is war but done in an underhanded way. Why is there such weak governance over there!?!
I never claimed that 'Adam Smith = consumerism as lifestyle and corporate takeover', but economic liberalism, a popular Enlightenment philosophy laid the groundwork for it.
Well yes but the same Enlightenment philosophy laid the groundwork for Europe as well. The end results were however different.
Quote:
And the reason people associate it with the US is that their post WWII economic engine poised it to dominate. Had the US been economically isolated, Europe may well bemoan the cultural bereftness of a society obsessed with Koka-Kola, pantalons de Nimes, McNorth Sea, and the pablum coming out of Pinewood.
There is nothing wrong with "pantalons de Nimes" - I don't believe that that's what Europeans "lament about" when it comes to Americanization of Europe, so I'll simply re-post what one of them said on this thread;
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1950's-americana THINGS I DISLIKE ABOUT AMERICAN INFLUENCE:
-POLITICAL CORRECTNESS: Yes it works in the US, considering American history and culture it makes sense, but do not export it elsewhere where most likely won't work.
-FORCED SHOVED DOWN YOUR THROAT USA-STYLE MULTICULTURALISM: You HAVE to abandon your cultural heritage and label yourself with white/black or whatever term Americans use, and accept this new identity and embrace the American concept of multiculturalism, because you HAVE TO!
- CORPORTATION WINS OVER THE PEOPLE: Small businesses are over, it's all big corporations ruling everything, notice how stores everywhere in the world are nowadays pretty much the same! (this was born and largely pushed by the US)
- RUSSIA IS YOUR ENEMY EUROPE, AMERICA YOUR FRIEND: If Europe had TRULY INTELLIGENT LEADERS, they would take advantage of both Rusia and the USA relations wise.... Sadly European leaders are spineless and at the orders of the US, as a result Europe always ends up in the middle of all this power struggle against Russia, often paying for the broken dishes after the party is over, while the US is happy keeping its power over Europe!
- EUROPE NEEDS TO LOSE ITS CULTURE AND ACCEPT THE GLOBALIZED MULTICULTURAL USA-STYLE WORLD: I already mentioned something similar earlier, but American influence while good in many ways, has been terrible for Europe in A LOT OF OTHER WAYS! Certain countries especially Sweden, Netherlands, Germany are starting to look like the USA!
- WORK WORK WORK CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME, DON'T THINK! JUST WORK AND CONSUME: yes Europe is starting to become like that (Sadly!)
If those are your beliefs and your observations, then stop resorting to propagandistic videos and organisations such as Britain First, NDL, National Front and such because they are one massive utter joke. Those are organizations who want us to step back one hundred years in the same way as the most conservative Muslims.
See, people are different, someone living in the Russian countryside may not have the same worldview as those who live in a cosmopolitan city such as London. I'll take his word (a Londoner) or mine (a Southern Italian) over the word of a Russian American when the matter of the discourse is the integration of Muslims and immigrants on the whole in European countries
You can take whoever's word over mine - you are entitled to your own opinion, but telling me what I can and CAN'T use to bring my point across is a whole different story. It does not matter what "Britain First" stands for; I am definitely not a type willing to walk around with a big cross in my hands myself. In fact you can turn off the sound on those videos all together - it's not even that important what "Britain's first" ppl are saying. The images on those videos are quite telling; the hostile to Europe religion is moving in and making itself comfortable there. And it doesn't matter how many "friendly and westernized muslims" you personally know. What matters, is what this religion really represents and where it stands relatively to European values. Because even if you know "friendly muslims that drink and wear western clothing" ( meaning those who stopped following their religion,) that doesn't mean that this is what's happening to all of them, magically, once they move onto European lands. In fact quite a few of them become even more set in their own Islamic ways and become more aggressive, laying in wait, and biding their time.
Now as far as "provincial Russia" vs such "cosmopolitan city as London" - the rule of thumb is quite universal in this case. The life in ANY big European\American city is always going to be more cosmopolitan, where the small provincial towns are more likely to stick to their own traditional ways, where the local population will be always more weary of the new-comers and their differences. This type of places will always harbor more resentment to "multi-culturalism" and breed more of the "nationalism first" types.
Just to prove my point - here is Moscow, during Kurban Bairam
At that, the voice of the official news is quite "affirming," and assuring that everything is going just fine, where the Moscovites observing what's happening to their city step by step are not all that at ease.
But that's Moscow, a big city used to "multiculturalism," and therefore more cosmopolitan and tolerant, however it's not necessarily not case with smaller cities. At that, Russia is full of Central Asian muslims, who are quite docile in nature unlike the Middle Easterners, that for the most part comprise the muslim group moving lately to Europe.
You're missing the point I made quite spectacularly, erasure, which is that many people whom identify with being "Muslim" are not necessarily by-the-book - and not just the ones I know personally! Of the 60,000 (?) or so Muslims living in Luton, I'd bet a large percentage of those are rather more moderate or even westernised, compared to the relative few portrayed in those dubiously edited, inflammatory videos.
You'll be posting that "Muslim Demographics" video next. You know, the one that was debunked about four years ago.
You're missing the point I made quite spectacularly, erasure, which is that many people whom identify with being "Muslim" are not necessarily by-the-book - and not just the ones I know personally! Of the 60,000 (?) or so Muslims living in Luton, I'd bet a large percentage of those are rather more moderate or even westernised, compared to the relative few portrayed in those dubiously edited, inflammatory videos.
You'll be posting that "Muslim Demographics" video next. You know, the one that was debunked about four years ago.
I don't miss your point, I simply consider it less importance than you do.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
