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You do realise don't you that the defence of the 'West' was a joint NATO responsibility? You do know don't you that it wasn't just American military stationed in Germany during the cold war?
How very unlike an American to try and take all the credit lol.
America pays for most of NATO and provides the great majority of troops.
It also pays a disproportionately large amount of money to fund the UN.
European countries have provided only a token number of troops when they've joined America in coalitions.
And when it comes to Iran, European countries can't wait to do business with the mullahs.
Just as they did business with Saddam Hussein.
I would be fine with America pulling its soldiers out of Europe and South Korea. And sending the UN packing so that we can turn the UN building in New York City into condos.
I also think we should have let the Soviets do all the work in defeating Hitler.
That way, they would have taken over all of Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Italy -- maybe even Britain.
What has America gotten from Europe except ingratitude after fighting in WW I and WW II?
We had enough on our plate in WW II dealing with Japan.
Last edited by dechatelet; 02-19-2016 at 01:50 AM..
Maybe you're right....when the Americans and the British bombed Bulgaria in WW2 they protected us from the birds as the ruins were great shield against birds **** .
Bulgaria was a Nazi German ally in WW II.
So if course we bombed you.
We were fighting the Nazis and their allies.
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You also protected us on September 5th 1944 when the Soviet Union declared us war and entered bulgaria four days later.
In September, 1944, both America and the Soviet Union were fighting the Nazis.
Bulgaria was a Nazi German ally at that time.
America is supposed to apologize to you now?
I don't think so.
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And once again it was ALL your protection when the Berlin wall felt in 1989.
It didn't fall because of anything Europeans did.
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Ukraine is over 95% Russian at some parts, you can't protect Russia from Russia.
Ukraine became independent of Russia.
I guess that doesn't matter to you.
How about this?
Slavic peoples are all the same, so Russia can take over all of Eastern Europe.
I hope they do after reading what people are saying here.
Last edited by dechatelet; 02-19-2016 at 01:46 AM..
2. forced pushed down your throat multiculturalism
3. rampant consumerism
4. big companies owning everything
5. celebrity worshipping
that is truly cancerous aspect of the american culture
there are much better things to come out of the US (music, foods, ideas of equality etc.)
If that is it, then you should have old ladies like me run the world. As I do not care about any of that, if fact, I am oblivious to it, well all but the corporation thing, and I bet I could get most people to forget about that issue.
I would never think of asking what French culture is.
Instead, I would read Moliere, Balzac, Flaubert, visit Paris, learn a little bit of French, etc.
Why does America have to explain itself in two or three sentences?
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Originally Posted by ABQConvict
Americanization is not necessarily good for Europe, just as it isn't for America (a lot of Europeans discount the fact that Americans are the first victims of Americanization), but most of the visible impact of Americanization is ultimately superficial and transient compared to the radical social reworking that is effected by a widespread immigration of people with a fundamentally different worldview.
Most of the underpinnings of American culture, including its corporate bullishness, are rooted in Western worldview, Enlightenment/post-Enlightenment values and institutions, etc. While Europeans are free to (and perhaps rightfully should) reject the American manifestation of those values and institutions, to deny their origins as being as foreign as sharia law and the precepts of Islam is simply false.
I reject the notion that Americanization is a bad thing.
Americans not only need to stop apologizing for their culture, they need to recognize that they ARE what is left of culture.
There is little of cultural or intellectual interest going on in Europe. Europe, sadly, is a museum and little more. A wonderful museum, but that's all. And it is a museum that depends both on capitalism and American protection.
There is nothing of cultural interest going on in the Middle East.
On the contrary, ISIS is busily destroying museums and cultural monuments.
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Originally Posted by ABQConvict
Well, if one considers America's 'money making production line and consumerism' a result of Adam Smith's economic philosophy, and one considers Adam Smith a European Enlightenment figure, then it stands to reason that America's corporate bullishness has its roots in the European Enlightenment.
Good point.
The worst elements of capitalism took place when England went through the industrial revolution, while at the same time colonizing the world. America looks innocent compared to that.
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Originally Posted by vantexan
As an American who has lived 54 years all over the States I can agree that there are deficiencies in our "culture." But it's ironic that someone would slam the States on the Internet, an American innovation. With all of our faults our profit driven model has lead to innovations that have greatly enhanced our lives. Islam, if forced upon us, would greatly restrict our lives. Is there an Islamic nation that is a world leader in technology, healthcare, or individual rights? We have leaders who constantly refer to Islam as one of the world's great religions. Do leaders in conservative Muslim countries(pretty much most Islamic nations) describe other religions that way? Do they allow the free exercise of other religions in their countries? Do they allow atheists to openly criticize Islam? Anyone who sees America as a greater threat to their lives than Islam is either a Muslim or a hardcore socialist. We do have our faults, and the best way to improve them is to push the best qualities of life in Europe and elsewhere.
Well said.
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Originally Posted by improb
Exactly, what's happening in the Middle East and Northern Africa is similar to what had happened in Europe roughly a century ago. The most conservative people are resisting change either through cruel dictatorships or religious fanatism and there's a clash going on inside these countries at the moment even though there are places where it's most subtle and places where it comes out in the form of a civil war
Islam is about where Europe was 13 centuries ago in terms of religious intolerance and barbaric behavior. And actually, Europe wasn't even all that bad then!
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Originally Posted by vantexan
I believe the OP was talking about American culture vs. Islamic culture. But to your point, while Christianity has had it's past sins, true Christianity is based on love for your fellow man. Those who use it for intolerance aren't practicing true Christianity, and that has always been the case. Thus Christian influenced countries have evolved into something better than the brutality of the Middle Ages. Islam was spread by the sword since it's beginning. Where are the Muslim missionaries preaching to the lost? Southern European history for much of the last 700 years was about resisting Muslim occupation and domination. Glossing over the evil of groups like ISIS by pointing out what Christians wrongly did a long time ago doesn't change the fact that a large percentage of the Muslim world still wants to spread their religion by any means they deem necessary.
Exactly.
Europe was attacked for over 300 years by Muslims before it even started the Crusades.
Those crusades lasted for only 200 years. Muslim attacks on Europe lasted for over 1,000 years, starting in the late 600s.
Indeed, America's first major military action was to quell the Muslim Barbary Pirates in the early 1800s.
So I now correct myself. Muslim attacks on the west lasted for almost 1200 years. And they're starting up again.
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Originally Posted by vantexan
It's not a matter of bragging. If you allow average men the chance to improve their lives by inventing products that improve ours, you get an explosion in innovation that moves the world forward. If you hold people back with a restrictive culture that demonizes change, you get something like today's Islamic nations. Nowhere is that more evident than America vs the Middle East.
Well said.
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Originally Posted by r_u_a_wizard
Good point that shouldn't be forgotten. For centuries the Byzantines resisted the Muslim advance, but eventually they were defeated in part due to Western European betrayal. After them, other European powers fought to keep the Turks out. You can see the effects of Turkish rule in the Balkans to this day.
I love when people bring up the crusades, because most people do not know anything about history.. The crusades were launched in response to Arab Muslim aggression
The Islamic world as the enemy of Christian Europe has been a political reality for over a thousand years... Why would things be different now?
So true.
But as you say, most people don't know history. So it's going to repeat itself...again, and again, and again.
America pays for most of NATO and provides the great majority of troops.
It also pays a disproportionately large amount of money to fund the UN.
European countries have provided only a token number of troops when they've joined America in coalitions.
And when it comes to Iran, European countries can't wait to do business with the mullahs.
Just as they did business with Saddam Hussein.
I would be fine with America pulling its soldiers out of Europe and South Korea. And sending the UN packing so that we can turn the UN building in New York City into condos.
I also think we should have let the Soviets do all the work in defeating Hitler.
That way, they would have taken over all of Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Italy -- maybe even Britain.
What has America gotten from Europe except ingratitude after fighting in WW I and WW II?
We had enough on our plate in WW II dealing with Japan.
Ingratitude you say! (some) Americans, like yourself don't even ACKNOWLEDGE the other allied nations when it comes to the second world war! or any war (including the cold war) for that matter! You do realise don't you that it wasn't just America that fought the Japanese?? How about you (as an American) thanking the British for fighting alone against the evil tyranny of Nazism when everybody else turned their back? I am sorry but the attitude of (some) Americans like yourself over the last 20 years or so is just breeding resentment from other nations that used to be close allies, get over yourself. If American politicians don't want the US to be part of NATO or the UN (thought I'm not sure why this organisation came into the topic) there is nothing stopping them from leaving. I suspect though your government isn't as blinkered as you.
Ingratitude you say! (some) Americans, like yourself don't even ACKNOWLEDGE the other allied nations when it comes to the second world war! or any war (including the cold war) for that matter! You do realise don't you that it wasn't just America that fought the Japanese?? How about you (as an American) thanking the British for fighting alone against the evil tyranny of Nazism when everybody else turned their back? I am sorry but the attitude of (some) Americans like yourself over the last 20 years or so is just breeding resentment from other nations that used to be close allies, get over yourself. If American politicians don't want the US to be part of NATO or the UN (thought I'm not sure why this organisation came into the topic) there is nothing stopping them from leaving. I suspect though your government isn't as blinkered as you.
You must be kidding.
The only reason "the evil of Nazism" became a problem in the first place was because your British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain bowed and scraped to Hitler in Munich -- selling out Czechoslovakia -- and both the British and the French (in true cowardly fashion) wouldn't even raise a finger against der Fuhrer when he reoccupied the Rhineland in violation of the Versailles Treaty.
Reoccupied it without even firing a shot!
America had no need to fight Hitler. When did Hitler ever try to land troops on American shores? He didn't. But we helped you Brits. And you were in no position to be much help in fighting the Nazis or the Japanese. You were under siege on your own little island, dependent on American money and supplies -- as were the Soviets who only survived the Nazi invasion thanks to our Liberty ships which supplied them with arms, supplies and ammunition.
Yes, we sent Merchant Marines to their deaths on Liberty ships to supply the Soviets. They had the highest casualty rate of any group in the war -- and they weren't even in the military.
The only reason "the evil of Nazism" became a problem in the first place was because your British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain bowed and scraped to Hitler in Munich -- selling out Czechoslovakia -- and both the British and the French (in true cowardly fashion) wouldn't even raise a finger against der Fuhrer when he reoccupied the Rhineland in violation of the Versailles Treaty.
Reoccupied it without even firing a shot!
America had no need to fight Hitler. When did Hitler ever try to land troops on American shores? He didn't. But we helped you Brits. And you were in no position to be much help in fighting the Nazis or the Japanese. You were under siege on your own little island, dependent on American money and supplies -- as were the Soviets who only survived the Nazi invasion thanks to our Liberty ships which supplied them with arms, supplies and ammunition.
Yes, we sent Merchant Marines to their deaths on Liberty ships to supply the Soviets. They had the highest casualty rate of any group in the war -- and they weren't even in the military.
Where do you get your history knowledge from? Watching John Wayne films eh? Why don't you try reading history books for once, your complete disregard for ANY of the other allies during the war is shocking, the truth is the Russians did the most damage to the Nazis yet you don't find them on forums demanding that other Europeans pay homage. America wouldn't have even entered the war if the Japanese hadn't 'bombed' Hawaii, here is something for you to 'chew on' the Russians would have eventually defeated Hitler on their own, this is NOT something you could say about either the US or Britain. Personally I used to feel allied to the USA but people like you are completely turning the way I feel about the whole episode, the lack of respect from (some) US citizens like yourself is sickening, you claim that Europeans should somehow be thanking the US yet all the time you yourself show nothing but disrespect for everybody and anybody else, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
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