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Old 02-14-2016, 02:44 PM
 
5,051 posts, read 3,577,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I watch the surging Sanders crowd, and imagining his victory, I ask myself; since when ( and why) America with its conservative Christian roots all of a sudden should become so "left" and "liberal" within the next couple of years ( if he wins that is,) while Russia, where the "left" traditions are deeply ingrained in her culture will remain "right-wing," where under the current government it's all about the power of money and corporations? Particularly after the US government made such effort to destroy the "left-leaning" society and eradicate all the "liberal ideas" over there? Only to replace Russia as the "left-leaning state" itself?
Something is not right in this world, on top of all that latest Islamic invasion of Europe.
The inherent good of capitalism is deeply ingrained in the American mindset, at least as a superior system to Communism and many have secretly believed that Socialism was merely Communism's little brother. It has (had) been that way since the end of WW2.

In the last generation, younger, liberal leaning, Americans have become disillusioned with crony capitalism and the power of the corporation and Wall Street while becoming more accepting of the greater distribution of benefits provided by socialism.

In fact, the biggest difference between Democrats and Republicans lies in rhetoric and not so much in their policies. Bernie is antiWashington and antiWall Street. He is Social Progressive which does move him closer to Euro style government but if elected he would have a hard time implementing even 25% of his platform.
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Old 02-14-2016, 03:15 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,526,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
The inherent good of capitalism is deeply ingrained in the American mindset, at least as a superior system to Communism and many have secretly believed that Socialism was merely Communism's little brother. It has (had) been that way since the end of WW2.

In the last generation, younger, liberal leaning, Americans have become disillusioned with crony capitalism and the power of the corporation and Wall Street while becoming more accepting of the greater distribution of benefits provided by socialism.
Question - are the "younger, liberal leaning Americans" aware of elimination of this very "distribution of benefits provided by socialism" in Russia twenty years ago, dictated by AMERICAN economists? And if they are, why do they think that they are entitled to them now, while Russians were not?

Quote:
In fact, the biggest difference between Democrats and Republicans lies in rhetoric and not so much in their policies. Bernie is antiWashington and antiWall Street. He is Social Progressive which does move him closer to Euro style government but if elected he would have a hard time implementing even 25% of his platform.
Oh, I am pretty sure that he won't be able to implement most of his ideas, precisely because the background of this country, the very foundation of it is not "Social progressive" and many in America still remember it ( particularly those in charge on the Capitol Hill in Congress and Senate - Republicans mostly in this case,) and those on the Wall Street - i.e. people that really matter.)
But the whole idea of the attempt to switch historically left-leaning Russia and right-leaning America comes across as a strange and suspicious attempt.
(As much as this latest flooding of Europe with muslims, as I already mentioned earlier.)
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Old 02-14-2016, 03:15 PM
 
360 posts, read 1,087,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
The inherent good of capitalism is deeply ingrained in the American mindset, at least as a superior system to Communism and many have secretly believed that Socialism was merely Communism's little brother. It has (had) been that way since the end of WW2.

In the last generation, younger, liberal leaning, Americans have become disillusioned with crony capitalism and the power of the corporation and Wall Street while becoming more accepting of the greater distribution of benefits provided by socialism.

In fact, the biggest difference between Democrats and Republicans lies in rhetoric and not so much in their policies. Bernie is antiWashington and antiWall Street. He is Social Progressive which does move him closer to Euro style government but if elected he would have a hard time implementing even 25% of his platform.
People never seem to learn from history. If those in power would just be a bit more generous they could avert many of the "isms" that have arisen throughout history seeking a fairer shake for the poor and disenfranchised. Capitalism works, but it works too well for some and we're never going to eliminate envy and jealousy.
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Old 02-14-2016, 03:20 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,188 posts, read 107,790,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
If it weren't so serious, this would be comical. Look at them. It's obvious they've never lived in a country that allowed protest and freedom of speech. They have no idea how to go about creating slogans and pushing their cause. The slogan "Police, go to hell" doesn't address their issue. Their cause is that a member of the community was detained for questioning, and they consider that unjust, or perhaps inappropriate, because it's a woman now in a local jail, and they don't know under what conditions she's held But instead of carrying placards that say, "Free So-and-So", and "Justice for So-and-so", and that sort of thing, they're saying "Police, go to hell". That's not the way it's done. They have no experience with devising effective slogans. All they know how to do is march and yell. They don't know how to push a cause and inform the public of their concerns.

Is it common in England for Muslim women to wear the full body and face covering?

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 02-14-2016 at 04:39 PM..
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,340,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Adam Smith does not = consumerism as the basis of a lifestyle; neither does it equals the corporate takeover, which is really purely American phenomena that progressed in the last 20 years or so.
If Adam Smith ( who was of European origin) and Age of Enlightenment would have been a culprit of it all, Europeans would have suffered the same ills I would think.
But even if Europeans do suffer from it lately, that's not because of their own roots and reasons, but because America is spreading her corporate culture crap around the world.
I never claimed that 'Adam Smith = consumerism as lifestyle and corporate takeover', but economic liberalism, a popular Enlightenment philosophy laid the groundwork for it.

And the reason people associate it with the US is that their post WWII economic engine poised it to dominate. Had the US been economically isolated, Europe may well bemoan the cultural bereftness of a society obsessed with Koka-Kola, pantalons de Nimes, McNorth Sea, and the pablum coming out of Pinewood.
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:20 PM
 
1,267 posts, read 1,246,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Who told you that I "extract my opinions from Britain/EDL/National Front youtube clips?"
I extract my opinion of Islam based on personal experience/observations, since I spent enough of time dealing with muslims, not to mention that I have them in my own family.
Your personal experience of a MAN, living in London at that, is of course very different from mine, being a woman and witnessing muslims not in big cosmopolitan cities ( where they are less of a problem,) but it their "natural habitats."
Indeed my perception that Islamic culture is incompatible with European values/life style hits "closer to home" than yours, since you just "have acquaintances" somewhere in London.
All this "Britain First" and Luton events are just the latest discoveries of mine, that only add more details to a bigger picture.
You really shouldn't pay any attention to the likes of Britain First and you certainly shouldn't cite their videos as evidence of the invasion of Europe by Islamic Fundamentalists. Their ideology is as flawed as those they wish to attack and their methodology for proving their point is highly suspect. They often post highly emotive (and grammatically terrible) memes on social media which, with a cursory dig around on the internet, usually reveals them to be false. Pretty much everything they've posted has been debunked. Ditto EDL etc

There was a particular image going around purporting to be of a woman in a full hijab staking out the Westfield Shopping Mall at White City. Then after a close family member posted it, I decided to get to the bottom of it. A little bit of work on Google Earth revealed that the image was in fact taken at Wood Lane Station which, although is near Westfield, has no direct view of the mall and indeed, she would have been facing the other way. Further probing led to an image of the platform of the station which pretty much proved the image was of a woman standing at the platform edge using a mobile phone.

Don't take everything at face value, do a little work, and the truth will often reveal itself.
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:21 PM
 
1,598 posts, read 1,058,434 times
Reputation: 1776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
If it weren't so serious, this would be comical. Look at them. It's obvious they've never lived in a country that allowed protest and freedom of speech. They have no idea how to go about creating slogans and pushing their cause. The slogan "Police, go to hell" doesn't address their issue. Their cause is that a member of the community was jailed, and they consider that unjust, or perhaps inappropriate, because it's a woman now in a local jail, and they don't know under what conditions she's held But instead of carrying placards that say, "Free So-and-So", and "Justice for So-and-so", and that sort of thing, they're saying "Police, go to hell". That's not the way it's done. They have no experience with devising effective slogans. All they know how to do is march and yell. They don't know how to push a cause and inform the public of their concerns.

Is it common in England for Muslim women to wear the full body and face covering?
So a bit like Britain First who think the way to protest is by making a Facebook page, post crap videos on Youtube and pour beer outside a mosque?

No it's not common, there are some, so what?
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:24 PM
 
1,267 posts, read 1,246,811 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
. Is it common in England for Muslim women to wear the full body and face covering?
In certain areas perhaps but on the whole you're more likely to see a Muslim woman with just the usual pashmina style i.e. just a head covering but not the face. Or in many cases just western clothing.
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:43 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,188 posts, read 107,790,902 times
Reputation: 116087
Quote:
Originally Posted by philkirkham View Post
No it's not common, there are some, so what?
Pardon me for asking??

Haven't seen that in the US, that's all. If the image isn't common, it seems like a scene was picked for its potentially inflammatory nature.
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:51 PM
 
360 posts, read 1,087,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbobcat View Post
In certain areas perhaps but on the whole you're more likely to see a Muslim woman with just the usual pashmina style i.e. just a head covering but not the face. Or in many cases just western clothing.
We've had Muslim honor killings in the States where parents killed their daughters for becoming too westernized. Read last year that many young Muslim women disappear in Europe, presumed to either be killed by their families or whisked away to an arranged marriage in the old country.
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