Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
From what I understand, Muslims in Europe are very poor and do not assimilate quite well. In contrast, Muslims in America are among the most successful people in the country. I think on average they are more wealthy than the average white person. Why is this?
The two regions have different sources for guest workers.
You get the same complaint all the time in the US about Central American immigrants. There's no mention about the causes for the mass migrations, such as NAFTA's cheap agricultural exports destroying subsistence farms in Southern Mexico and US support for regime change and right-wing death squads (sound familiar to the situation with the Middle East today?).
El Salvador is one of the poorest countries on earth, and immigrants from El Salvador are often undocumented. Obviously someone immigrating from El Salvador to the U.S. generally won't have a high income in the first generation.
But Hispanics in the U.S., overall, have high incomes. If Hispanics in the U.S. were a country they would be richer than many Western European nations.
Here's a list of household income in the U.S. by ethnic background-
Your source lists Hispanic and Latino Americans at 41534$ far below the national average of 51914$. That's around 80% of the national average but then again it takes into consideration anyone who self identifies as such regardless of whether they are first, second or third generation. I would guess that the average for first generation would be even lower.
Here is the yearly average income by ethnicity (with imputed rent) in Italy by comparison
Philippines (Pinoys) 22.717
Albanese 21.797
Chinese 21.733
Macedonian 20.807
Ecuadorean 20.624
Tunisian 19.381
Polish 18.993
Peruvian 18.451
Moroccan 18.024
Indian 18.008
Moldovan 16.315
Romanian 16.296
Ukrainian 14.478
Other countries 23.016
ONLY FOREIGNER FAMILIES 16.447
FAMILIES WITH AT LEAST A NON ITALIAN 19.840
MIXED FAMILIES 31.474
ONLY ITALIAN FAMILIES 34.984
Anyway, the main reason there are lower numbers for Eastern European is that they are for the largest part spread throughout the country (whereas you would find that most other nationalities are more concentrated in Northern cities) or mostly concentrated in the South (Ukrainian are the largest community in Napoli) which is the least wealthy area of Italy. Albanians are the exception as they have numbers towards the higher end but that's mostly because they were the first to come. Middle Eastern seem to do rather well all in all
These stats which were put together by ISTAT in 2008 (which doesn't make them actual) mostly take in consideration first generation immigrants (basically those who have a foreign citizenship) considering anyone else an Italian.
you have nationals of some south American countries who top earners and who on average have higher education than Americans and then you have other nationalities of the same region who are on the bottom scale.
Most Mexicans in the US come from the poorest of the poor in Mexico, they just have to cross a border. While most Muslims in order to get to America need to have certain socio-economic status in their countries. (America shuts its door too poor muslims who often end up in Europe)
Europe has 50 to 60 million muslims of all walks of life, socio-economic statuses while the USA has a small community of mostly wealthy Muslims.
No, the USA doesn't; the communities are not always small, and the Muslims are not mostly wealthy.
There are all manner of Muslims in the US, in a variety of socio-economic groups. Some become wealthy, some arrive with wealth, many start out driving taxicabs or working in small businesses owned by other Muslims. The Muslim communities seem to help out their own, and the mosques function as community centers, as do eastern churches for East European immigrants, so when there are new arrivals, those who own businesses do their best to provide a job for the newcomers, or to help them get started driving cab, or connect them with relatives who can give them a job. Having even a simple job helps people feel like they have a stake in the society, society was willing to give them a start, they feel, so there's some gratitude there. And having a job to go to obviously keeps them busy, so they're less likely to cause trouble, and more likely to have a modicum of pride and at least a shred of status in the community.
Also, if they're working, they can go to community college part-time to better themselves. Even though higher education is not free in the US, someone with a full-time job can afford to pay for community college. After 2 years, they can try to transfer to university, and apply for various types of financial aid. If they don't know English, they can get free English lessons at the community college.
I know there are free language lessons available to immigrants in Scandinavia, but I don't know what the options are for them to get an education and to get ahead in life. I've heard it's very difficult, even for qualified professionals, to get into the job market, because there are strong preferences to hire ethnic Swedes in Sweden. I don't know about Norway. But in the US, once immigrants become qualified for well-paying jobs, there is no obstacle to getting hired.
All of these factors make a big difference as to the ability to integrate, as you can imagine. And it's not true that the majority of Near Eastern and North African immigrants are Christians. There are many Muslims everywhere, there have been for at least 40 or 50 years, and so there are mosques is most large metropolitan areas. Currently the US is being cautious, as far as I know, and is taking only families, but in the past, the US has taken single males. In my neighborhood when I lived in Seattle, there were many single Muslim males, and quite a few had their own taxicabs, driving for the main company in town. There were others who worked in some of the photocopy businesses around town, which seemed to be an economic niche Near Easterners and perhaps some South Asians had staked out for themselves. Others had restaurants, or other businesses.
Also, they don't live in huge apartment blocks in marginal areas. They live in regular neighborhoods among other Americans. I don't know exactly about the living arrangements, but in my observation, they rent small single-family homes together in residential neighborhoods, and in some urban areas, they rent apartments alongside American workers. The refugee families the US is currently taking in are allotted a house or apartment according to a resettlement program, they're assigned a social worker, they're directed to a mosque or Muslim community center in the area, if there is one, and by a certain deadline, the head of household is expected to get a job.
Your source lists Hispanic and Latino Americans at 41534$ far below the national average of 51914$. That's around 80% of the national average but then again it takes into consideration anyone who self identifies as such regardless of whether they are first, second or third generation. I would guess that the average for first generation would be even lower.
Well, yes, but, again, that's higher income than most European nations. If Hispanic America were a country it would be wealthy, at the same general level as Germany, France, Netherlands, UK, etc. and wealthier than Italy, Spain, etc.
And keep in mind that Hispanic households in the U.S. are significantly younger than White, Black, and Asian households. Household income/wealth rises with age in the U.S., so much of the income difference is probably attributable to age difference.
I like how they casually use "Slavic American" amongst all those very specific other terms.
Like, "Hey Bob, how much do you make and where are you from?" - "Oh, around 50k and I'm from Arkansas." - "No, where you are really from..." - "Well, I'm a tenth Zubrowkanian, so count me in as a Slav!".
Well, yeah. The data is all self-identification, so is subject to cultural bias. I wouldn't place total trust in the data, especially for groups that aren't of recent immigrant stock. And it's a few years out-of-date.
These data are amongst the most contradicting ones I've ever seen. There's a group called 'Scandinavian Americans', yet there are also 'Swedish Americans', 'Norwegian Americans', 'Danish Americans', 'Icelandic Americans', and 'Finnish Americans; there's another group called 'British Americans', then there are also separate groups for English, Scottish, and Welsh Americans; there's even a group called 'Celtic Americans', while Irish, Scottish, Scotch-Irish (wtf), and Welsh are all listed separately.
Well, yes, but, again, that's higher income than most European nations. If Hispanic America were a country it would be wealthy, at the same general level as Germany, France, Netherlands, UK, etc. and wealthier than Italy, Spain, etc.
And keep in mind that Hispanic households in the U.S. are significantly younger than White, Black, and Asian households. Household income/wealth rises with age in the U.S., so much of the income difference is probably attributable to age difference.
A yearly household income doesn't say much about wealth level. Purchase parity is much more relevant than just how many dollars they makes each year. They might make more than in other countries but spend more too and be left with no spare cash at the end of the end. If Hispanics are at the bottom of the income distribution it's probably because their living conditions aren't the greatest. That is why it is not uncommon to see Hispanics using public health services and welfare.
Sometimes it helps to see what I was responding to. Yes, I was talking about Islam, and the guy's statement that it is easy to convert to Islam, but hard to get out.
Err... you were responding to my post.
So sometimes it helps to underline the exact part of the post you are referring to...
From what I understand, Muslims in Europe are very poor and do not assimilate quite well. In contrast, Muslims in America are among the most successful people in the country. I think on average they are more wealthy than the average white person. Why is this?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
