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The Paris and Brussels attackers were from the second generation but not everyone in the second generation is of course going to assimilate but the majority still did. Neighbourhoods such as Molenbeek were the exceptions due to lack of control from the State (they didn't control who frequented the local Mosques for example nor did they address the problem of the locals and nor did they act to stop the white flight from there) with the neighbourhood just being abandoned to itself.
Twenty people who haven't integrated and went on to create problems such as these attackers get noticed, the two thousands who go on with their lives and who are as European as us aren't
That's because the 2000 don't strap suicide vests to themselves and blow people up.
We're talking about second generation immigrants in Europe. Yet like a true populist you move your attention to elsewhere. Anyway, there's no denying that Islam is a religious doctrine that's being used for political means. It officially isn't a political ideology but just like the Bible it can be.
I want to point out that there are several version fo Islam, amongst which extremist ones account for about 10% of Muslims around the world
And boy are they good at raising hell.
Hardcore Nazis were the minority in Europe as well, but you see what havoc a violent minority can cause when it's organized and well funded.
Hardcore Nazis were the minority in Europe as well, but you see what havoc a violent minority can cause when it's organized and well funded.
Hardline Nazis were close to being the majority in a European country though. They were at 35% at the German elections of 1932, 42% in 1933 and probably the majority after that due to Hitler's turning of the country into a dictatorship whose propaganda to its citizens is well known.
Muslims are at most 7-8% in any Western European country and amongst those Muslims according to most polls only 8-10% are extremely conservative and only an even smaller percentage of these conservatives would be willing to accomplish terroristic acts which means that it's about 0,7% of population at the very most but obviously even lower
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Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
That's because the 2000 don't strap suicide vests to themselves and blow people up.
No, that's because those two thousands don't have any resentment against our culture and either profess their own at home or simply don't care enough about it adopting Western secularism. Amongst those two thousands there probably are a 7-8% who're extremely conservative (at least that's what data shows) and probably struggle or don't want to condemn terroristic acts.
We're talking about second generation immigrants in Europe. Yet like a true populist you move your attention to elsewhere. Anyway, there's no denying that Islam is a religious doctrine that's being used for political means. It officially isn't a political ideology but just like the Bible it can be.
European racism and xenophobia is not to blame for radicalization. More typical introspective victim-blaming garbage from the chattering classes.
Ever stop to wonder why you don't see Arab Christians blowing people up or becoming radicalized in Europe? Or how about Chinese immigrants? Ostensibly they too would be under pressures of "xenophobia" and "racism."
The IDEOLOGY and the RELIGION is the problem. Stop trying to deny it. They will TELL YOU what their motivations are and people like you just say, "oh no no, you don't know what motivates you, let ME tell YOU what is the root of your disenfranchisement...."
Quote:
Originally Posted by improb
I want to point out that there are several version fo Islam, amongst which extremist ones account for about 10% of Muslims around the world
And 10% of 1.5 billion is..... 150 million extremists around the world. Or, the population of France and Germany combined, plus a couple others.
European racism and xenophobia is not to blame for radicalization. More typical introspective victim-blaming garbage from the chattering classes.
Ever stop to wonder why you don't see Arab Christians blowing people up or becoming radicalized in Europe? Or how about Chinese immigrants? Ostensibly they too would be under pressures of "xenophobia" and "racism."
The IDEOLOGY and the RELIGION is the problem. Stop trying to deny it. They will TELL YOU what their motivations are and people like you just say, "oh no no, you don't know what motivates you, let ME tell YOU what is the root of your disenfranchisement...."
And 10% of 1.5 billion is..... 150 million extremists around the world. Or, the population of France and Germany combined, plus a couple others.
Well I think you will note the world is on fire where there's significant populations of said adherents to said ideology.
Europe is peaceful because it's mostly a bunch of watered down Christians and atheists/secularists.
And yet some people just can't help fall over themselves to welcome the importation of millions of people who have the same conservative viewpoints on religion (and just about every other social issue, really):
"Mogahed said some of the findings surprised her, particularly that British Muslims identified more with their home nation than did non-Muslims because "it flew in the face of conventional wisdom".
The survey, the Gallup Coexist Index 2009, concluded that while European Muslims not only accepted but welcomed the freedoms, democratic institutions, justice, and human rights that characterised their societies, their perceived lack of integration was often explained by their rejection of liberal, sexual mores.
It said: "Some researchers point out that the greatest differences between Muslims and westerners lie more in eros than demos. In other words, the Muslim-west gap rests on differences in attitudes toward sexual liberalisation and gender issues rather than democracy and governance.
"This theory implies that the west speaks with one voice on issues of morals, tolerance, and sexual freedom. Furthermore, this line of argument contends that this unified system of western values represents the logical progression in all civilized, modern societies and Muslims are expected to embrace such liberal views, if they are to live in the west."
No, that's because those two thousands don't have any resentment against our culture and either profess their own at home or simply don't care enough about it adopting Western secularism. Amongst those two thousands there probably are a 7-8% who're extremely conservative (at least that's what data shows) and probably struggle or don't want to condemn terroristic acts.
As I said, people don't notice the peaceful ones because they're not strapping suicide vests to themselves and blowing people up.
Well, that actually wasn't the point. But now that you mention it... Islam is a supremacist ideology that outwardly declares that it seeks domination across the world and second class status of non-Muslims, wallows in pageantry and outward displays of faith, forbids intermarry and mixing with the local populations and wallows in tribalism.... so......
I take it you are! I also take it you think this of ALL muslims!?
There is one big reason for radicalisation of some muslims and conservative/fundamentalist attitude having become main stream of muslims. It is there are people who are and having been, covertly sometimes overtly, financially backing these movements. It was mid-'90s this tendency became very strong.
They are rich muslims, mostly oil-rich jumped-up Saudis and Qataris who are extremely eager to propagate wahabism/salafism to the world. They don't officially explicitly say they support the fanatic extremists. It is as good as to say they target USA for terrorist attack.
It was mid-'90s Islamic political parties became very active and began to attract strong supports among the voters. They won elections in many countries. It was partly and mainly because they materially and financially supported ordinary poor people. To give poor people money and commodities or legal or professional advice is an expensive political movement. The money was most probably donated by such people.
Turkey's AKP, whose head is Erdogan, is one of such political parties. Incidentally Turkey is not a democratic country anymore. The judicial and prosecution systems were usurped by Erdogan who is the head of legislative system. It is practically under the dictatorship of AKP (Erdogan).
I was planning on traveling to Switzerland and Italy in the near future from the states but not so sure now in light of the Paris and Brussels attacks. Do others out there feel the same as I do about traveling to Europe?
I'm an American, and I live in Brussels. Brussels is far safer than most US cities I've lived in or visited, east. Yes, terrorism is now an unfortunate issue, but the violent crime rates are fa lower in western European locales. One of the benefits of leaving the US for a few weeks to travel in Europe is that you have much better statistical averages of not getting shot.
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