Why Germans have so unfavorable view of US?? (cost, safe, culture)
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I'm a AfD voter myself, I don't think that anti-Americanism is promiment among conservatives, it's rather found among die-hard neonazis and antisemites but they are some sort of socialists too as in national-socialism.
Thanks for posting
I knew AfD people were not anti-Americans.
It can be a theme maybe but it didn't seem strong to me either.
It can be a theme maybe but it didn't seem strong to me either.
I cannot speak for all AfD voters; but I want to add something, being pro Putin does not automatically make one an anti-American, I think many AfD supporters like Trump, an anti-American would not do so I guess, the leftists demonize him. As I said, many Germans are against free market capitalism, this is why they hate the US, leftists also hate people having the right to possess firearms and Christianity. Hardcore Neonazis consider the US to be a puppy of the Jews, they do not actually hate the US itself but the Jews of whom they think they run the US, this is at least my impression.
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Originally Posted by viribusunitis
Ehhh... Yeah. The National Socialists were about as socialist as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is democratic and a republic of the people.
Ever heard about the Nacht der langen Messer and the Strasser brothers?
National-Socialism is as collectivistic as is Communism, on the other hand Communism is also totalitarian to the core, both are closer related to each other than both sides may like, the leftists are even antisemitic, though they hide it as "Israel-criticism".
What you wrote about the AFD is extremely biased. Many if not most of their voters have strong anti-American sentiments. A good portion of their voters are people with a Russian immigration background. Many of them get their information from Russian propaganda broadcasts.
Several American friendly AFD politicians have left the AFD (Lucke, Henkel). AFD politicians like Bernd Höcke or Alexander Gauland are well known for their extremely anti-American views. They even demand that Germany should turn away from the U.S. and turn towards Russia.
Many of the AFD voters are former voters of the Linke. The overwhelming majority of AFD voters have an extremely socialistic view when it comes to economic policies.
Of course AFD supporters are pro Donald Trump. AFD supporter like absurd and simple problem-solving approaches. An America under Trump wouldn't be the same America we know today.
Here is my personal ranking for party supporters from least anti-American to most anti-American:
What you wrote about the AFD is extremely biased. Many if not most of their voters have strong anti-American sentiments. A good portion of their voters are people with a Russian immigration background. Many of them get their information from Russian propaganda broadcasts.
Several American friendly AFD politicians have left the AFD (Lucke, Henkel). AFD politicians like Bernd Höcke or Alexander Gauland are well known for their extremely anti-American views. They even demand that Germany should turn away from the U.S. and turn towards Russia.
Many of the AFD voters are former voters of the Linke. The overwhelming majority of AFD voters have an extremely socialistic view when it comes to economic policies.
Of course AFD supporters are pro Donald Trump. AFD supporter like absurd and simple problem-solving approaches. An America under Trump wouldn't be the same America we know today.
Here is my personal ranking for party supporters from least anti-American to most anti-American:
-FDP
-CDU/CSU
-SPD
-Grüne
-AFD
-Linke
Which would make a lot of sense, had Russia have normal government by now.
But it doesn't; courtesy of the United States of America yet again.
The U.S. secretly installed Putin as a puppet? Now I think I've heard everything...
"Secretly" is incorrect word here. The correct word is inadvertently.
When Clintons thought that they've shrewdly/successfully used Yeltsin, while achieving their goal of destruction of Russia, Yeltsin ( once he realized the dire consequences of this deceit) made the last logical decision, familiar to him from his earlier days. And this only logical decision to deal with chaos and destruction inflicted upon his country was to appoint as his successor a KGB officer, who was far more worldly at that, than Yeltsin ever was. From that point on, Russians never looked back. They considered Putin a savior back in the day, and many remember that until now.
"Secretly" is incorrect word here. The correct word is inadvertently.
When Clintons thought that they've shrewdly/successfully used Yeltsin, while achieving their goal of destruction of Russia, Yeltsin ( once he realized the dire consequences of this deceit) made the last logical decision, familiar to him from his earlier days. And this only logical decision to deal with chaos and destruction inflicted upon his country was to appoint as his successor a KGB officer, who was far more worldly at that, than Yeltsin ever was. From that point on, Russians never looked back. They considered Putin a savior back in the day, and many remember that until now.
This is probably not what you meant, but if it was, you're wrong. It's a another thing to say the US wanted Russia to grow under their influence to make sure it doesn't become a competitor, a good example would be Japan. That didn't work, and maybe for the better, but they weren't blatantly trying to destroy Russia
I'm familiar with your reasoning.
The "world is out there to get us", "others are to blame", "there's a masonic-jewish conspiracy against us"...
I am not sure how you can be "familiar with my reasoning," since I am definitely not familiar with yours.
"The world is out there to get us?"
The world is big, so I am not sure why, say, Uganda or Venezuela would want to "get us"))))
"Others are to blame?"
Very possible. Depends who and when.
And "masonic - Jewish conspiracy?"
Quite honestly, I still don't know much about "masons," but as for Jews...
Yes, they did play certain role in Russia's demise of the nineties, but not so much because of the "conspiracy," but for very practical reasons.
See, a lot of Jews immigrated from the SU earlier ( end of the 70ies - end of the 80ies,) and many of those that still remained in Russia had "friends of friends" in the "Western financial circles." So the "transferal of funds" went rather smooth for them; not to mention that even the person in charge from American side of all the thuggery of the nineties - the Harvard professor of economy Andrei Shleifer, was Russian Jew in origin. Add to that Gusinsky, Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky - those first magnates of the nineties and you'll get the picture.
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So Russians are not responsable for the mess they are in?
The overwhelming majority of population - no. They were simply not aware of everything that was going on behind the closed door between their government and Americans. But those in the upper Russian management - yes, they are responsible and Russians are aware of it.
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Of course not, blah, blah.
Blah-blah - that's rather your limited knowledge/understanding of the subject.
This is probably not what you meant, but if it was, you're wrong. It's a another thing to say the US wanted Russia to grow under their influence to make sure it doesn't become a competitor, a good example would be Japan. That didn't work, and maybe for the better, but they weren't blatantly trying to destroy Russia
Yes, that's precisely what I meant, and I underlined your sentence, because it contains certain contradictions.
To make the long story short, Russia was MEANT to be a competitor for the US in every sense of it, because of historic background. The only way to not allow someone to be your competitor, is to not to make someone "to grow" under your influence, but to plan how to choke them slowly but surely with the planned actions. ( You can find plenty of descriptions of it in Brzezinski "The Grand Chessboard" book for example. The latest American escapades in Ukraine is the part of it by the way...)
It's all calculated with desirable goals set to be achieved in a long term as much as in a short term. (It's a different thing that those calculations might turn out to be wrong.)
P.S. If it were all about just "friendly influence," the US gov. wouldn't have minded Russia acquiring the European economic models of development ( which indeed were much more suitable for the country.)
No, the idea of "pure capitalism" enforced there was indeed implemented for specific reasons.
I don't want to hijack this thread, because this thread is about Germany. But since Germany has now a sizeable chunk of former Russian population that votes in certain way, of course it's bound to make a difference. Probably in the same manner as the vote of the former Soviet Jews ( and non-Jews alike) that immigrated en mass to Israel because of the economic hardship of the nineties in Russia, influenced the political field in Israel as well.
But there are other reasons of course too, why Russia is quite relevant to Germany in political/economic sense of it and vice versa. Again - historically so.
Last edited by erasure; 04-22-2016 at 11:26 AM..
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