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Old 06-08-2016, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,438,068 times
Reputation: 4831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
They know "more" about them NOW, with all the venues that media provides. It was not a case in the first part of the previous century - far away from it.



You are wrong in your assumptions. To put it bluntly - in *some* countries the *people* ( i.e. the general population) are allowed to be in power ( up to a certain degree,) and in others they are subjected under the thumb of the authorities. ALL nations started from this point, but in SOME nations the decisions from THE TOP allowed to change this situation, in some it was not a case. You need to learn more about the history of Germany, THEIR background, to understand that theirs traditionally was a very conservative state. Nothing like the US at all, so don't project your own history on Germans pls)))
you're trying to explain why the Germans supported the Nazis (their conservative past) but that doesn't justify what they did, power belongs to those who convince others they have it. If the people don't like their government, there is little the government can do to fight this but change.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:54 PM
 
828 posts, read 693,596 times
Reputation: 1345
Well we did beat the Germans in two world wars. It could have something to do with that.
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:29 PM
 
Location: EU
985 posts, read 1,854,780 times
Reputation: 1679
Yes, and the British, French and Russians. Germany' defeat in WW2 was much more caused by Russia/SU though.

Today's Germans don't give a hsit who defeated them 98 and 71 years ago. The reasons have already been told upthread.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:44 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
you're trying to explain why the Germans supported the Nazis (their conservative past) but that doesn't justify what they did, power belongs to those who convince others they have it. If the people don't like their government, there is little the government can do to fight this but change.
That's what the subject was all about and that's what I was commenting on. What's "justifiable" and what's not - that's already a different subject.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:46 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10040
Quote:
Originally Posted by soursop View Post
Well we did beat the Germans in two world wars. It could have something to do with that.
If this were true, then Germans would have hated Russia much more than US today.
But it's clearly not a case.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:54 PM
 
31,927 posts, read 27,007,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
If this were true, then Germans would have hated Russia much more than US today.
But it's clearly not a case.
Yes, one would think that post WWII and all that Russia meted out against Germany in terms of retribution (including mass rape), the latter would overall have reservations against that other place. But that isn't the case.


Historically going back long before WWI Germany and Russia had various close economic and other ties. Germany provided no end of brides and grooms for the Romanovs and Russian nobility among others for instance.


Post WWII Germany and Russia eventually moved on and again have very close ties; this explains their rather muted response to Putin's invasion and designs on the Ukraine.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:58 PM
 
31,927 posts, read 27,007,597 times
Reputation: 24824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geggo View Post
Yes, and the British, French and Russians. Germany' defeat in WW2 was much more caused by Russia/SU though.

Today's Germans don't give a hsit who defeated them 98 and 71 years ago. The reasons have already been told upthread.

Yes, this is true. It is several generations after WWII and many Germans are fed up to the back teeth of hearing about that war, Nazis and so forth. I mean in the years after the war Germany has given the world automobiles, washing machines and laundry detergent and they still won't forget.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:00 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,567,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Yes, one would think that post WWII and all that Russia meted out against Germany in terms of retribution (including mass rape), the latter would overall have reservations against that other place. But that isn't the case.


Historically going back long before WWI Germany and Russia had various close economic and other ties. Germany provided no end of brides and grooms for the Romanovs and Russian nobility among others for instance.

Russia from the 1700ies on, has "Continental Europe" written all over it - be that state institutions, system of education, art and science or what's not.
Germany "providing "brides and grooms" for "Romanov's"? Lol, it's probably better to say that Germany provided "Romanov's" for Russia, period.


"The House of Romanov (Russian: Рома́нов, IPA: [rɐˈmanəf]) was the second dynasty, after the Rurik dynasty, to rule over Russia, and reigned from 1613 until the abdication of Czar Nicholas II on March 15, 1917, as a result of the February Revolution.
The direct male line of the Romanovs came to an end when Elizabeth of Russia died in 1762. After an era of dynastic crisis, the House of Holstein-Gottorp, a cadet branch of the House of Oldenburg, ascended the throne in 1762 with Peter III, a grandson of Peter I. All rulers from the middle of the 18th century to the revolution of 1917 were descended from that branch. Though officially known as the House of Romanov, these descendants of the Romanov and Oldenburg Houses are sometimes referred to as Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Romanov


So basically when it comes to state institutions, system of education, army - apart from earlier input from Netherlands, it's mostly Germans all over the place - their presence was quite prominent in Russia; they helped to shape and organize modern Russian state the way I see it. ( French influence on Russian culture came a bit later.)
And since Germans invested in Russia so much ( I am not talking in purely financial terms here) - these ties couldn't disappear of course.


Quote:
Post WWII Germany and Russia eventually moved on and again have very close ties; this explains their rather muted response to Putin's invasion and designs on the Ukraine.
Yes, it was only a matter of time when these ties would resurface again. And even if Merkel ( or any other German leader) would like to comply with American policies, it will not be necessarily widely supported by German population in general, starting from German business owners.
You can see here the signs of German discontent

Merkel

and immediate reaction from the US to this "insubordination."

US delegation sensitive to any close Euro-Russian relations

At that I don't see Germans necessarily supporting Putin; it's rather more within the same lines as Americans using radical Islam to hurt Russian interests. When Germans think that the US is getting out of hands with their push for global dominance - yes, they will turn to Russia as a force capable to counter-balance this push.
And I see the French are not tagging far behind in this respect;

LiveLeak.com - French Senate Unanimously Adopts Resolution on Easing Anti-Russia Sanctions (comments)

Last edited by erasure; 06-09-2016 at 12:14 AM..
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
1,248 posts, read 824,578 times
Reputation: 1915
One thing I hate about Americans (and I mean, really hate to the extend of wanting to slap anyone who says or writes this thing) is the following opinions that seems to be very widespread among them:

1. That foreign women from all non-US countries would do anything (anything usually means sex) in order to get a Green Card and move to the USA.
2. That any foreign woman who is romantically involved with an American man is doing it only because of Green Card/citizenship or else because of this American's money.

As a woman, and a woman who has zero interest in obtaining a Green Card, much less by trading it for sex, I find these opinions pretty disgusting.
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,438,068 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norne View Post
One thing I hate about Americans (and I mean, really hate to the extend of wanting to slap anyone who says or writes this thing) is the following opinions that seems to be very widespread among them:

1. That foreign women from all non-US countries would do anything (anything usually means sex) in order to get a Green Card and move to the USA.
2. That any foreign woman who is romantically involved with an American man is doing it only because of Green Card/citizenship or else because of this American's money.

As a woman, and a woman who has zero interest in obtaining a Green Card, much less by trading it for sex, I find these opinions pretty disgusting.
depending on where you're from (poorer country) the second one is kind of true. The first one is categorically false.
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