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In my opinion Spain and Italy (country that I love and I admire greatly )are brothers in the culture but we have very different mentality.
Spaniards are very rigid perhaps for our history and very flexible the italians.They have suffered many
dominations and they perhaps defended contravening any laws .--
I when Traveling in Italy with my kids for the first time in Italy they were amazed as italian cars we ,they passed they for continous on line, without respecting traffic rules.
The cities spanish trains are cleaner and are more in point than the italians because
the italians are less disciplined than the spaniards.Perhaps this is part of its charm too.
Neither Franco, ,nor the UE ,etc have nothing to do with these things.-
Everybody is talking about infrastructure but where I think Spain is truly years away from Italy is in their progressive views. It always amazes me how many retrograde social and political views many (very educated) Italians still have, regarding sexism and the role of women in society, TV and media, homosexuality, religion, immigration...
Toledo, Avila, Salamanca, Valladolid, etc the same Madrid, are not close to the ocean nor any sea, they are hundred of miles distant, in Italy this never happens...
true, but does being close to the sea means not isolated? You are confusing these two concepts. Being isolated means having poor connection to larger urban centres. It has nothing to do with access to a large body of water.
Everybody is talking about infrastructure but where I think Spain is truly years away from Italy is in their progressive views. It always amazes me how many retrograde social and political views many (very educated) Italians still have, regarding sexism and the role of women in society, TV and media, homosexuality, religion, immigration...
How long ago have you been here? The difference between past generations (baby boomers) and youth is steep. It mustn't be forgotten that the former had to live their youth in a country which was perpetually governed by the Christian Democrats who had indirect control of most medias and who spread socially conservative views and that unlike in Spain there wasn't a backlash against them, they just faded away in obscurity after the scandals of the early 90s.
Aside from that, a majority supports same sex marriage:
Same goes for immigration. This is a poll conducted by a center-right website regarding Matteo Salvini's (leader of far right Northern League) views on immigration and even amongst the right only 39% share his extreme views while 14% have doubts and 47% are opposed to them. That said, i think Spaniards are more favourable of it given that there's literally no far right party in your parliament (Northern League polls at 13% in Italy and Brothers of Italy at 4% here instead)
I could go on and on, sexism is probably where you still have a point but even then it varies from region to region and much of it is changing
I visited Italy in 1974 from Spain, and the country seemed to me a complete disaster in comparison with Spain. What shocked me the most were people in Rome, vociferous, not disciplined and they even groped women which was unheard of in Spain.
I used to think..."Is this the kind of democracy and country rgat the future has in store for us?". Milan, on the other hand, was more similar to Spain. I was also shocked by politics, there were no politics in Spain. The entire city was pasted with political propaganda.
Spain was a militarised country until not a long time ago, so I guess that something must remain.
In the 70s, the country was in the midst of the Years of Lead and Rome was at the center of it. On one side you had the Christian Democrats and on the other the Communists whose support was quickly growing and there was a propaganda battle between the two sides with the Red Brigades (communist paramilitary terroristic groups) and Black Brigades (neofascist and anticommunist paramilitary terroristic groups).
60s and 80s was when we had our boom while starting from 1973 with the Kippur crisis until the end of the decades we had a rough time
Everybody is talking about infrastructure but where I think Spain is truly years away from Italy is in their progressive views. It always amazes me how many retrograde social and political views many (very educated) Italians still have, regarding sexism and the role of women in society, TV and media, homosexuality, religion, immigration...
Sure, some famous people of Italy have been quite vocal against women, gays, immigrants and other minorities, but most of my friends are pretty forward-thinking... Maybe it's because I live in Bologna, can have access to gay parties, meet transgender people, immigrants, punks and the like, but things are not that bad... Of course there are also people who still wish we were living in the 1920s with women at home and gays in jail, but not everyone is like that !
I would say that there is a huge gap between the "elite" and the people, and Italy is very heterogenous.
I like to say that in Italy the worst is right next to the best, in every possible way. Better concentrate on the best, because there is plenty of it.
Can't compare. In the US, most people live in houses that only rich people can afford here. They have better kitchen and appliances, but they don't use them much.
Kitchens and domestic appliances are bigger in the U.S., but definitely not better. Americans still buy electric stoves with exposed heating elements. It's a nightmare to clean them. Never seen this in Europe. Glass ceramic glass cooktops are the norm in Europe since at least 25 years. They came to the U.S. with a huge delay. They are still not so widespread in the U.S. Today it's quite normal in Europe to buy ceramic glass cooktops with touch control panels. The supply of such cooktops is very small in the U.S. Not long ago convection ovens in the U.S. were very rare.
Top loading washing machines with very plain technology are still common in the U.S. Many of them are even unable to heat the water.
Not long ago dryers without electronic dry control were common in the U.S. Just equipped with a timer switch.
Why do you think rich Americans spend a fortune for high-end European appliances, but American appliances are unsaleable in Europe?
It's the same for kitchen furniture. Kitchen furniture in the U.S. are very simple. You still find drawers with wooden runners. Drawers with ball bearing mounted runners and soft eject closing are still not the norm in the U.S. Kitchen cabinets in American kitchens are often still equipped with piano hinges. Innovative kitchen cabinets in the U.S. are a curiosity. You can buy extremely expensive Italian or German kitchens in the U.S. but you can't find American kitchens in Europe.
Here two videos about kitchens from the largest European kitchen manufacturer. Nobilia is a manufacturer of mid-range kitchens:
Kitchens and domestic appliances are bigger in the U.S., but definitely not better. Americans still buy electric stoves with exposed heating elements. It's a nightmare to clean them. Never seen this in Europe. Glass ceramic glass cooktops are the norm in Europe since at least 25 years. They came to the U.S. with a huge delay. They are still not so widespread in the U.S. Today it's quite normal in Europe to buy ceramic glass cooktops with touch control panels. The supply of such cooktops is very small in the U.S. Not long ago convection ovens in the U.S. were very rare.
Top loading washing machines with very plain technology are still common in the U.S. Many of them are even unable to heat the water.
Not long ago dryers without electronic dry control were common in the U.S. Just equipped with a timer switch.
Why do you think rich Americans spend a fortune for high-end European appliances, but American appliances are unsaleable in Europe?
It's the same for kitchen furniture. Kitchen furniture in the U.S. are very simple. You still find drawers with wooden runners. Drawers with ball bearing mounted runners and soft eject closing are still not the norm in the U.S. Kitchen cabinets in American kitchens are often still equipped with piano hinges. Innovative kitchen cabinets in the U.S. are a curiosity. You can buy extremely expensive Italian or German kitchens in the U.S. but you can't find American kitchens in Europe.
Here two videos about kitchens from the largest European kitchen manufacturer. Nobilia is a manufacturer of mid-range kitchens:
Originally Posted by lukas1973
Compared to the U.S. houses in Italy are indeed small, that's not surprising. But from what I have seen in Italy kitchens and domestic appliances are definitely more modern and more technological advanced than in the U.S.
Are they? This surprises me
I have to admit that I have seen just two Italian kitchens (near Brescia). But according to photos from an Italian real estate site, they seem to be pretty common.
The reason why American kitchens and domestic appliances are less innovative and modern is that most Americans buy or rent homes where the kitchens and most domestic appliances are already included. The building contractor decides what kind of kitchen furniture are build into the house and he also choose the domestic appliances. The incentives for the building contractor to choose the most innovative kitchen furniture and the most advanced appliances are very small. The most important reasons for buyer to buy a certain house is the location and the size. The installed kitchen and the domestic appliances are negligible for the buying decision. It's getting pretty expensive if you want an exceptional kitchen.
That's also the reason why virtually all kitchens in the U.S. look extremely similar. The building contractor will equip the house with the most common kitchen design.
It takes extremely long (many many years, sometimes decades) until new developments in kitchen design and appliance innovation will hit the mass market in the U.S.
-Ceramic glass cooktops
-Ceramic glass cooktops with touch control panels (seems still unavailable in the U.S. but maybe because of legal issues?)
-Convection ovens
-Induction cooker
-Drawers and cabinets with soft closing mechanism
-Electrified doors and drawers
Kitchen furniture in the U.S. are mostly build into the house by very small local kitchen manufacturer. It's more like a carpenter's workshop. They really lack innovation. Kitchens in Europe are mostly produced by large corporations, they constantly enhance the kitchen furniture.
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