My first day in Russia! (places, France, Spain, people)
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I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm fine with older generations passing down their knowledge. What I dislike is having people less cultured then myself telling me how to live my life. There's going to be a difference in mindset between the two groups. Younger people are usually more receptive to new ideas because they've had a lot more exposure. I can elaborate further if you want, but I'm afraid it's going to be off topic.
See my response directed at Zimogor.
But, yeah, I'm also interested in our friend's story about chicks and lap dances.
Since you don't like Vodka, what kind of drink do you want? I'll get ready.
Well as long as you are serving drinks on this thread I'll stick around ( a glass of red vine please - preferably Georgian. Crimean Massandra was awfully good too as far as I remember.)))
And if all fails, German beer will do.
I was trying to provide CAR with the best advise when it comes to the "cultural implications" involving such simple thing as roses.
Zimogor was puzzled to no end by this discovery ( as unintended consequences,) but that's a man thing.
I couldn't give any advise on that "lap dance" performed by CAR, since my imagination has its limits)))
I do keep my eye on CAR Tomsk life updates though.
Well as long as you are serving drinks on this thread I'll stick around ( a glass of red vine please - preferably Georgian. Crimean Massandra was awfully good too as far as I remember.)))
And if all fails, German beer will do.
I was trying to provide CAR with the best advise when it comes to the "cultural implications" involving such simple thing as roses.
Zimogor was puzzled to no end by this discovery ( as unintended consequences,) but that's a man thing.
I couldn't give any advise on that "lap dance" performed by CAR, since my imagination has its limits)))
I do keep my eye on CAR Tomsk life updates though.
I'm having only my 2nd 2nd date ever this Saturday...that makes the cultural implications even more confusing for me. I think it's because I'm 10x more confident here than I was back home.
I'm having only my 2nd 2nd date ever this Saturday...that makes the cultural implications even more confusing for me. I think it's because I'm 10x more confident here than I was back home.
I'm having only my 2nd 2nd date ever this Saturday...that makes the cultural implications even more confusing for me. I think it's because I'm 10x more confident here than I was back home.
OK, let me make this flower voodoo science very simple for you)))
To begin with - in Russia you don't bring the even number of flowers to your date ( or when you visit and want to bring some flowers along for the hostess.)
Even number of flowers is reserved for funerals. ( That's just Russian etiquette, so don't ask.
So now, that we established this first rule, let's move to the next one.
As the site I referred you to earlier explains, most women in Russia will think of you as "cheap" if you will bring just one rose on the first date. ( I certainly would - this would be at the back of my mind. )
BUT: at the same time, a single rose can be regarded as a very romantic gesture when you already have the established relationship, ( this depends of course, but it definitely works at least for some couples, so Zimogor is not making any mistakes when he brings that flower to his wife, because she is the one and only. Just an example. )
Are you still with me?
OK, here comes the next dilemma - how many flowers do you bring then for your first date?
That's a tricky part, because here you can go two routs, depending on your personality;
If you want to impress your date/knock her off her feet - if you are that kind of a guy, then yes, you can throw at her a heap of flowers. And if she is that kind of a girl, she will be happy looking at that shiny bouquet presented by you, happy to sink her face in it, "smelling roses" so to speak. Literally so.
But for some of us, this huge bouquet can be simply overbearing.
As in: "Are you trying too hard to impress me? I am not impressed. Are you trying to show me that you have money or that you can "take care of a woman?" That's even worse, because the "Middle Easterners" and Caucasians come to mind right away. )
So three flowers nicely wrapped would be a sufficient gesture at this point. The kind of bouquet that will not be overwhelming, that will not cover half of the table ( a-hem,) that will not stare in your face, yet will be appreciated as a nice classy touch.
Soo..
I hope these basics were easy enough, the difficult part of course is to figure out what kind of girl you are dealing with, and how do you want to come across yourself.
And here ( as in case with your lap dance) I can't give any advice already))
OK, let me make this flower voodoo science very simple for you)))
To begin with - in Russia you don't bring the even number of flowers to your date ( or when you visit and want to bring some flowers along for the hostess.)
Even number of flowers is reserved for funerals. ( That's just Russian etiquette, so don't ask.
So now, that we established this first rule, let's move to the next one.
As the site I referred you to earlier explains, most women in Russia will think of you as "cheap" if you will bring just one rose on the first date. ( I certainly would - this would be at the back of my mind. )
BUT: at the same time, a single rose can be regarded as a very romantic gesture when you already have the established relationship, ( this depends of course, but it definitely works at least for some couples, so Zimogor is not making any mistakes when he brings that flower to his wife, because she is the one and only. Just an example. )
Are you still with me?
OK, here comes the next dilemma - how many flowers do you bring then for your first date?
That's a tricky part, because here you can go two routs, depending on your personality;
If you want to impress your date/knock her off her feet - if you are that kind of a guy, then yes, you can throw at her a heap of flowers. And if she is that kind of a girl, she will be happy looking at that shiny bouquet presented by you, happy to sink her face in it, "smelling roses" so to speak. Literally so.
But for some of us, this huge bouquet can be simply overbearing.
As in: "Are you trying too hard to impress me? I am not impressed. Are you trying to show me that you have money or that you can "take care of a woman?" That's even worse, because the "Middle Easterners" and Caucasians come to mind right away. )
So three flowers nicely wrapped would be a sufficient gesture at this point. The kind of bouquet that will not be overwhelming, that will not cover half of the table ( a-hem,) that will not stare in your face, yet will be appreciated as a nice classy touch.
Soo..
I hope these basics were easy enough, the difficult part of course is to figure out what kind of girl you are dealing with, and how do you want to come across yourself.
And here ( as in case with your lap dance) I can't give any advice already))
Here is my advice to CAR: do not bring flowers to a first date. The problem is, girl would need to hold them all the time. It's one thing if you are invited to the house, then it's totally appropriate, since there she would have a vase or something to put them in. But if you are going to a walk, or restaurant, or movie, or somewhere else - this would inconvenience her more than please. It only looks romantic in the movies, but it is a hassle in a real life. You are much better off to bring, say, tickets to a concert/circus/theater/some event - that's both a gift and an invitation to a next date
As for the rest, erasure, you are right as usual It's very hard to find a balance between "do you show off like Caucasian?" (which is the worst thing you can do) and "are you that cheap"?
But overall, just relax. Since you are the foreigner, in Russia you are basically excused upfront for almost any "cultural" mistake, if you are not too gross (i.e. don't fart with people around ). And yes, nobody there gonna care if you are not PC
Here is my advice to CAR: do not bring flowers to a first date. The problem is, girl would need to hold them all the time. It's one thing if you are invited to the house, then it's totally appropriate, since there she would have a vase or something to put them in. But if you are going to a walk, or restaurant, or movie, or somewhere else - this would inconvenience her more than please. It only looks romantic in the movies, but it is a hassle in a real life. You are much better off to bring, say, tickets to a concert/circus/theater/some event - that's both a gift and an invitation to a next date
As for the rest, erasure, you are right as usual It's very hard to find a balance between "do you show off like Caucasian?" (which is the worst thing you can do) and "are you that cheap"?
But overall, just relax. Since you are the foreigner, in Russia you are basically excused upfront for almost any "cultural" mistake, if you are not too gross (i.e. don't fart with people around ). And yes, nobody there gonna care if you are not PC
I'm taking her to a decent restaurant so I figure that flowers might be more inconvenient than they are appreciated.
A telltale sign of civic-advancement, in any society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMeAK
... intelligentsia misses its high place in the society, but we deserved losing it as we could not lead the country, so the plebs took over and chose plebs-approptiate leadership.
This is unfortunately becoming a ubiquitous trend; witness what's happening in the US and UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
Because ( as we've already established it) it has been Americanized. ... big part of people in Russian propaganda department are actually following the "American script," in spite of all the official "patriotic bru-ha-ha."
This is inevitable. The “American spirit” is trans-national modernity, be it advertising, personal aspirations, or the essence of how a society ought to be built. Pop culture = American culture = modern culture.
We forget now, but before the present political tribulations, before the “war on terrorism”, the chief lament was American encroachment on the various national cultures. The French didn’t want McDonalds supplanting their national cuisine, and so forth. Russia was in this regard just another nation with a historically deep national culture, that lamented the amalgamation and common-denominator drift of the “American spirit”.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
Meet Tony Robbins for example.
Remember him, and the whole American concept of "life coaching," how it's all is "up to you," how far you want to go in life, how rich you want to be and so on?
That's exactly it! The "American spirit" is less about immediately obvious talismans, such as poorly-built gaudy McMansions in the suburbs, than about a liltingly naive belief in the primacy of personal verve... that all that stands between one and one's success, is good attitude and the willingness to take risks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousAboutRussia
...I'm 10x more confident here than I was back home.
Likely this is because you're on an adventure. You have no one to impress, noting to prove, no preset objectives to achieve. You can position yourself to accept a broad range of outcomes, extracting an element of pleasure (or education) from them all. This allows you an easy-going spontaneity and expanse of unfettered intuition, really regardless of the host culture. So, it's less about Russia per se, and more about your status as a traveler.
A telltale sign of civic-advancement, in any society.
This is unfortunately becoming a ubiquitous trend; witness what's happening in the US and UK.
This is inevitable. The “American spirit” is trans-national modernity, be it advertising, personal aspirations, or the essence of how a society ought to be built. Pop culture = American culture = modern culture.
We forget now, but before the present political tribulations, before the “war on terrorism”, the chief lament was American encroachment on the various national cultures. The French didn’t want McDonalds supplanting their national cuisine, and so forth. Russia was in this regard just another nation with a historically deep national culture, that lamented the amalgamation and common-denominator drift of the “American spirit”.
That's exactly it! The "American spirit" is less about immediately obvious talismans, such as poorly-built gaudy McMansions in the suburbs, than about a liltingly naive belief in the primacy of personal verve... that all that stands between one and one's success, is good attitude and the willingness to take risks.
Likely this is because you're on an adventure. You have no one to impress, noting to prove, no preset objectives to achieve. You can position yourself to accept a broad range of outcomes, extracting an element of pleasure (or education) from them all. This allows you an easy-going spontaneity and expanse of unfettered intuition, really regardless of the host culture. So, it's less about Russia per se, and more about your status as a traveler.
After living most of my life in the US, I find American concepts to be fake/inapplicable anywhere else but in the US.
Sort of like I found Soviet concepts to be fake.
But this is a CAR's "First day in Russia" thread, so I'll probably have to take comments along with your post elsewhere.
P.S. There is no such thing as "intelligentsia" in America. There are intellectuals, but that's not one and the same thing.
"Intelligentsia" is the old world concept; it can't exist in the society, where the definition of classes is based solely upon the monetary differences, as it's a case in the US.
Likely this is because you're on an adventure. You have no one to impress, noting to prove, no preset objectives to achieve. You can position yourself to accept a broad range of outcomes, extracting an element of pleasure (or education) from them all. This allows you an easy-going spontaneity and expanse of unfettered intuition, really regardless of the host culture. So, it's less about Russia per se, and more about your status as a traveler.
I think its all about being in a new/strange place for the first time. Everything is interesting, everything is rewarding, everything is wonderous. Humans have been going over the next hill our entire exitence. Humans went from Alaska to Patagonia in a mere 2000 years or so it's thought by reading available archeological data.
Curiousity it a powerful driver for humanity. It makes us do crazy things.
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Crimean Massandra was awfully good too as far as I remember.))) 
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