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^Hungary outside of Budapest is severly underrated though. There's more to it than the admittedly gorgeous Budapest. In general even provincial towns are green, tidy and clean. Not much of the gray drabness seen in small Polish and even Austrian towns for example.
Just forgot to add that Ukraine, along with Belarus are the cradles of East Slavic culture (Kievan Rus').
After living in Prague & Bratislava I think I must've gone with Budapest. I didn't just because the language! Bratislava was too small, gray and boring outside of the old town. Prague was like Disney Land and the locals were grumpy. I did travel to Siofok and Balaton and was impressed how sea-like it feels. And I come from Bulgaria, so I know what a sea is! I think the locals were also much friendlier than Czechs despite not knowing English well and me not knowing a word in Magyar.
Even boring towns like Debrecen have at least a couple of nice architecture and lots of colors. Nothing like the rundown or ugly towns in the Czech, Polish and Slovak countrisides (not counting the mountain ones in Northeastern Slovakia & very South Poland). I also have mostly good experiences with Hungarians abroad unlike with Czechs and Poles...
I even like how Budapest suburbs look and feel compared to Czech and Polish ones. Bratislava suburbs were nice but the center outside of old town looks much worse than the wider centers of Hungarian and Bulgarian towns, too gray, run down and depressing (they could also plant some trees on those streets!). It's developing fast though, but in the glass skyscraper US-like style. The old bus station of Bratislava was like o much worse than the ones in Sofia and even Plovdiv. The Apollo bridge is one of the most impressing modern ones in the world, though. But still it feels too industrial compared to Budapest.
As for Ukraine, I'd definitely think of visiting Lvov and Odessa and one of these tiny sea villages as they're still undiscovered by drunk Brits and stag parties. They have sun and sand for a better price than my native Bulgaria. It's ironic that "poor" Ukraine has maintained Lvov much better than Poles maintain most of their own cities like Lodz, Gdansk and Warsaw (defacing it with glass skyscrapers ).
OP, I think you hit on one answer to your question, with the bolded. There's a language barrier. Though as you observed earlier, the young people speak English and are hip. And someone recently posted some very interesting and attractive things about Budapest, that were eye-opening for me. So it sounds like a city worth visiting (generally, I avoid cities when I travel for tourism.).
But to answer your question (you asked, so I'm answering, but it won't be pretty):
1. Language barrier
2. Hungary has the image, for better or for worse, of being a flat plain, lacking in scenery. From what I've heard from Euro visitors to Balaton, it's vastly over-rated. Sorry. And the food on offer at the hotels there was a little too close to village fare, but that was back during the Soviet period. Scandinavian guests aren't favorably impressed when discovering chicken feet in their soup. YMMV.
TBH, though, I knew a student who had been to a summer language program in Debrecen and loved it. She didn't think it was boring. You do a good job of raising awareness of what Hungary has to offer. I think one reason it's underrated, is that it doesn't have a strong marketing department, so most people know nothing about it, and assume it's just another drab post-Soviet country.
Ukraine: beautiful! And it has everything; mountains, rivers, lakes, monasteries perched in picturesque locations, old historical cities, good food, good people. Probably it's not more popular because people assume it's poor, and therefore has nothing to offer, and again--lack of marketing. Russia advertises its Volga cruises, its museums, its Golden Ring of medieval historical cities, and of course, Moscow and St. Petersburg need no advertising; they're a powerful draw unto themselves. Ukraine doesn't have that cachet. It remains to be discovered by the intrepid traveler, a diamond in the rough.
They are not overrated. Budapest is nice and like many other european cities, SWIMMING IN CHINESE MASS TOURISM literally YOU CANNOT escape the Chinese in budapest and prague these days.
Ukraine is too poor and people struggle, i have an issue with people going there to take advantage of the situation.
That includes gross american men past their prime flashing their crappy passport in an effort to impress people.
I generally avoid americans abroad like the plague. (I'm an American)
The claim that Ukrainians are sophisticated and outrageously gorgeous is more american yapping about exotic places abroad.
Americans have a tendency to fetishize foreigners. He probably thinks they are because they are different looking from the overweight unatractive loud American masses here at home.
Some Ukrainians are sophisticated, some aren't. No need for americans to fetishize foreigners so much.
Examples of americans fetishizing foreigners:
OMG All Europeans speak like five languages each!!!
OMG everyone in the Netherlands is super tall and skinny and blonde!!!
OMG italians are so stylish and they all wear high fashion!!!!
OMG French women are so skinny and they all dress like super models!!!
Americans overrate Europe too much. To the point is kinda childish and pathetic.
Though, as a flag-waiving, overweight American I am officially offended, I laughed like hell.
Though, as a flag-waiving, overweight American I am officially offended, I laughed like hell.
Cheers.
Ironically, that person was practicing what they claimed to hate about other people. And to boot, he/she was responding to someone who isn't an American. But if i lived in Chicago I would have some anger and twisted views too... I feel sad for people stuck in the past and don't understand how the world changes.
Just forgot to add that Ukraine, along with Belarus are the cradles of East Slavic culture (Kievan Rus').
After living in Prague & Bratislava I think I must've gone with Budapest. I didn't just because the language! Bratislava was too small, gray and boring outside of the old town. Prague was like Disney Land and the locals were grumpy. I did travel to Siofok and Balaton and was impressed how sea-like it feels. And I come from Bulgaria, so I know what a sea is! I think the locals were also much friendlier than Czechs despite not knowing English well and me not knowing a word in Magyar.
Even boring towns like Debrecen have at least a couple of nice architecture and lots of colors. Nothing like the rundown or ugly towns in the Czech, Polish and Slovak countrisides (not counting the mountain ones in Northeastern Slovakia & very South Poland). I also have mostly good experiences with Hungarians abroad unlike with Czechs and Poles...
I even like how Budapest suburbs look and feel compared to Czech and Polish ones. Bratislava suburbs were nice but the center outside of old town looks much worse than the wider centers of Hungarian and Bulgarian towns, too gray, run down and depressing (they could also plant some trees on those streets!). It's developing fast though, but in the glass skyscraper US-like style. The old bus station of Bratislava was like o much worse than the ones in Sofia and even Plovdiv. The Apollo bridge is one of the most impressing modern ones in the world, though. But still it feels too industrial compared to Budapest.
As for Ukraine, I'd definitely think of visiting Lvov and Odessa and one of these tiny sea villages as they're still undiscovered by drunk Brits and stag parties. They have sun and sand for a better price than my native Bulgaria. It's ironic that "poor" Ukraine has maintained Lvov much better than Poles maintain most of their own cities like Lodz, Gdansk and Warsaw (defacing it with glass skyscrapers ).
Yes it is ironic indeed.
Lvov is one of the most beautiful Polish cities there is. Ukrainians maintain it very well (probably along with another Polish city - Ivano-Frankovsk.)
As for the rest of the cities in Ukraine... - they look so last century, and not in a good sense of this word.
Yes it is ironic indeed.
Lvov is one of the most beautiful Polish cities there is. Ukrainians maintain it very well (probably along with another Polish city - Ivano-Frankovsk.)
As for the rest of the cities in Ukraine... - they look so last century, and not in a good sense of this word.
Lviv is as Polish as Helsinki is Swedish. But more to the point, there are some other cities in Ukraine getting major face lifts lately and others with some much needed deferred maintenance. Outside of Odessa, they are mostly in the western half of the country though. It takes a long time to recover from post Soviet blight...The eastern half is probably never going to attract many tourists as it just continues to decay.
Lviv is as Polish as Helsinki is Swedish. But more to the point, there are some other cities in Ukraine getting major face lifts lately and others with some much needed deferred maintenance. Outside of Odessa, they are mostly in the western half of the country though. It takes a long time to recover from post Soviet blight...The eastern half is probably never going to attract many tourists as it just continues to decay.
Lvov ( or is it Lemberg originally? ) is a typical Polish city. There is nothing "Ukrainian" about it, and never has been. It's been known already back in Soviet times.
I have no idea what "Swedish" is about Helsinki, because it's the Russians who turned it into new Finnish capital, moving it from original Turku, precisely with a purpose to weaken the Swedish influence.
Here it is;
So god knows - I've never been at that place, and ultimately it sounds as "German" to me, since Germans are like... EVERYWHERE, ( including this architect,) since they invested so heavily in organizing modern Russian state.
In fact they invested so solidly apparently, that even when they decided to ultimately destroy it, they couldn't manage any longer.
But you, DKM distract me as usual, because with your usual bla-bla about some vague "facelifts of the cities in Western Ukraine" - nothing specific.
Unlike you, I can look at the map of Ukraine, pick the cities randomly and look at them on Youtube.
They ALL look equally bad now - in poor shape, be that Western, Eastern or central parts of Ukraine.
With the notable exception of Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk.
And both ironically enough are Polish cities, and both look nice - Lvov in particular.
When the person was talking about its physical features from over 100 years ago (the old town which is beautiful), this is from its time as Lemberg. Vast majority of its downtown physical features are from Austro-Hungary and not Poland. That's why Lviv looks more like Bratislava than Warsaw. You've never been to either so your opinion is rather worthless based on youtube videos produced by Russian haters of formerly occupied eastern european countries.
Warsaw is a capital city of a major European state undergoing major economic and physical changes. With that comes some glass skyscrapers and the modernism that gres laments. But let's be honest much of Warsaw needed to be updated. And it's happening quick.
Vast majority of its downtown physical features are from Austro-Hungary and not Poland. That's why Lviv looks more like Bratislava than Warsaw. You've never been to either so your opinion is rather worthless based on youtube videos produced by Russian haters of formerly occupied eastern european countries.
Warsaw is a capital city of a major European state undergoing major economic and physical changes. With that comes some glass skyscrapers and the modernism that gres laments. But let's be honest much of Warsaw needed to be updated. And it's happening quick.
For what's worth, the distance between Warsaw and Krakow is only 200 miles. Basically, the same difference as between NYC and Boston. There are some difference, but many of the same influences too.
Many years ago I've visited to Warsaw and Krakow. Warsaw had pretty soviet grim buildings. It also had some of the old town. Krakow was lovely, without Warsaw darkness, but very similar to Warsaw's old town.
I've never been to Lviv, but Krakow and Lviv were all part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Lviv had a huge Polish populations. At least, before Ukrainians resettled the Poles to Wroclaw.
Hungary is suppose to be beautiful and have a different architecture and feeling from Poland. IDK - never been there.
I hate these modern glass skyscrapers. NYC's Empire State Buildings, Chrysler Building, Flatiron Building, Waldorf Astoria New York, Federal Hall and New York City Hall are really beautiful buildings. The glass cheapo buildings are so forgettable and ugly.
When the person was talking about its physical features from over 100 years ago (the old town which is beautiful), this is from its time as Lemberg. Vast majority of its downtown physical features are from Austro-Hungary and not Poland. That's why Lviv looks more like Bratislava than Warsaw.
Warsaw is a capital city of a major European state undergoing major economic and physical changes. With that comes some glass skyscrapers and the modernism that gres laments. But let's be honest much of Warsaw needed to be updated. And it's happening quick.
Or look closer at some images in Grudziadz.
Of course Lvov looks something within those lines. And if it looks German - that's not my fault.
Germans are like all over the place in that *Intermarium,* so I will leave it up to Polish folks to argue what architecture looks German in their country and what looks "authentically Polish."
German presence is omnipotent and omnipresent in that part of the world, I'm telling you DKM - it's even worse than Putin.
But whatever Lvov is, Polish or Austrian ( read German again )- it doesn't look ANYTHING Ukrainian - that's for sure.
The idiots made an idol out of foreign culture, claimed it as their own, and decided to force it upon the rest of the country - that's what it is.
Quote:
You've never been to either so your opinion is rather worthless based on youtube videos produced by Russian haters of formerly occupied eastern european countries.
My opinion sure counts more than yours, because I can look at all those different cities in Ukraine in great details, since they are made by people who live there or travel there)))
You? You can only rely on the stories told you by your *nationalist friends* as usual.
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).
) is a typical Polish city. There is nothing "Ukrainian" about it, and never has been. It's been known already back in Soviet times. 
)- it doesn't look ANYTHING Ukrainian - that's for sure. 
