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Old 10-26-2010, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,973 posts, read 40,978,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
It is very important to make HGH and Steroids illegal, in order that Organized Crime might make money off them.

If they were legal, how would the drug lords, who sell them now that they're illegal, make ends meet? How would they support our politicians, and slip cash to their friends in the media? How would they buy stock in media conglomerates?

It's pretty common knowledge that a certain governor of a certain state consumed massive quantities of various steroids, as a young son-of-a-Nazi. The astonishing physical beauty that this gave him made him the secret sexual fantasy of at least 75% of the men in America (when they weren't 'watching' the Von Erichs 'wrestle'). Anyway, the Gov surely consumed giant doses of various chemicals, for decades. He's still around. And there are lots of professional athletes still alive...men who were stars in sports where Steroid use, at one stage or another, is basically 100%.

And there are plenty of other men who used lots and lots of 'juice', who are still around. Some of them are in their eighties.

Even if 'roids' did cause premature death, they'd be no worse than booze and ciggies. I see no rush to make those unavailable. And frankly, dying young and beautiful is not such a bad thing. There was a kid from our old town...gay ...effeminate...worthless art degree...going nowhere...really a hopeless life. He started on 'roids (slept with an old doctor who was notorious for swapping drugs for sex...actually a common way for bodybuilders, gay and straight, to get their supplies). This was maybe fifteen years back. He blossomed, became a personal trainer, did very well, had magnificent lovers...then dropped dead of a heart attack, at maybe 35...successful and desired. Not a bad way to go. A lot better than the lingering deaths most of us face at the end of our lives. And it cost 'society' basically nothing. No Social Security. No Medicare. No months of expensive indigent care, funded by the state.

I would add that for contests, that kid may have used Cocaine as a diet aid "to get ripped". That was common, before Meth became the diet aid of choice for competitive bodybuilders shedding those last pounds. And really, simply the act of crash dieting is enough to destroy the Heart Muscle. I know plenty of trophy wives who yo-yo dieted for decades, who are basket cases at fifty. It may be the dynamics of bodybuilding competition, more than Steroids, that kill so many bodybuilders. It is a common saying that when you go onstage...starved...severely dehydrated ... that you are more dead than alive. As a personal growth tool, bodybuilding is wonderful. As a sport, it is a travesty.

As for using 'roids' being 'cheating'.... Generally, to have success becoming muscular, you either have to do 'roids', or you have to have huge....ahem....'testosterone makers'. My DH lucked-up, and has the latter. I wouldn't let him touch 'roids', because we knew that even one course...even Cortisone for a sprain, can ruin their size, forever. They never come back 100%. Anyway, having giant 'glands' is maybe cheating, too, since not everybody has them. If anything, Steroids leveled the playing field, and allowed men who would otherwise have been stuck being little and ugly (because they had small 'hormone makers') have a chance at being beautiful.

We girls hit a plateau, beyond which we cannot go. People actually ask me if I'm not afraid I'll end up like one of those freaky women onstage at the physique contests. I actually have to explain that those women didn't get that way by exercising too much. All lifting does for me is refine my lines, and keep me tuned-up. It can't make me significantly bigger. Anyway, most guys hit a similar plateau, depending on their hormone levels and amount of muscle fiber.

But for guys less 'gifted', I totally would say 'go for it', except for the fact that they are illegal, and you really don't want to die in prison, being gang-raped by 'minorities', because some Roid Narc ratted you out after entrapping you. That's what I told our sons, who thankfully listened, and didn't need chemical enhancements, anyway (besides, I suspect they're too fond of sharing their 'natural abundance' with one female after another, and have no intention of becoming 'less abundant'. So, while a Roids Bust is not a possibility, the prospect of multiple paternity suits keeps me worried. Actually, each is probably out pollinating some flower right this minute....oh dear... ).

Pity, because there is nothing more beautiful than a really giant bodybuilder (whether or not his junk still functions, or is even still visible). Branch Warren, for one, is absolutely breathtaking (not that I'm saying he uses or anything...). DH and I were talking about who I would keep as my Fancy Man, if DH were to leave this world. All my top candidates were giant Steroid freaks. I guess I'd have to let them live in Cabo and fly up for visits. I think that's what the pros have to do, now (more money leaving our economy...).

Being little and ugly can be fatal, too. Ask the parents of some bullying victims. Ask the families of diminutive men who've been beaten to death because they looked like easy targets. Think of the men who went jobless or underemployed, because they were trolls: men who finally reached the end of their financial ropes, and ended it. If they'd looked fantastic (and 'roids' can make you look fabulous), they probably would have had easier lives. I know for a fact that one surgeon in my old state was put through Med School by an older man, because he was a beautiful bodybuilder. The older man persuaded the guy to enter Pre-Med, with a promise of financial support. The older man usually kept football players: and so the younger guy would have been invisible to him, had he not had muscles. The younger guy had been working slowly toward a worthless undergrad degree, and was going nowhere...but his body was a ticket to the big leagues. Now, he's sitting pretty, in a two million dollar mansion. Drove a Mercedes, all through Med School, too...thanks to his 'sponsor'.

But no: the NarcoState wants Steroids and HGH to be illegal, so that Organized Crime will have another something to sell. Lovely.
Weird thought processes in play here. Not all women think bodybuilders are beautiful.
The idea of being a bodybuilder in order to be a "kept man" and go to medical school is downright creepy. By the way, having muscles will not get you into medical school.

And there are lots of "diminutive" men who could probably put the average bodybuilder on the mat. I suspect more steroid users have committed suicide than men who did it because they were small.

The troll comment is just plain nasty.

Why does organized crime have to be involved, when you can buy anabolic steroids off the internet?
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,973 posts, read 40,978,179 times
Reputation: 44901
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Why do you want/feel like you need the latest car, the latest iphone, the latest fashion, the need to smoke, the need to drink, the need to eat crap food, the need to be sedentary, the need to skydive, the need to ride a motorcycle, the need to take ibuprofen, the need to get a tummy tuck, or a boob job, or ................................and your "nature" argument is pretty weak as well. Responsible and conservative steroid use will not lead to kidney problems or dialysis. You have no clue what you are talking about. You're probably paying for other people who have far worse complications and health effects from drinking alcohol, eating trans fat, or driving wrecklessly. It's not your average steroid user that shows up in the hospital and the ERs.
Actually, serious complications can occur even at doses used for legitimate medical indications. See one package insert here: DailyMed: About DailyMed .And it may be your liver that you need to worry about. Maybe you are the one who has no clue.

By the way, I like to drive wrecklessly. It's a very good way to keep auto insurance rates low.
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:55 AM
 
783 posts, read 2,251,097 times
Reputation: 533
I didn't say I was IN college. I worked there. In the purchasing dept. Almost 25 years ago.

Oh well. Not going to defend myself. Believe it don't, really don't care. I have no reason to make this crap up, my post was to inform the op.

Oh, and it takes an ENORMOUS amount of work to look like a bodybuilder. But some have a hard time even looking like a jock. And maybe it's not even about "what women want" any more than a woman gets a boob job to attract men. For me and many others, it's about what we see in the mirror.
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:34 AM
 
465 posts, read 461,763 times
Reputation: 179
Every bodybuilder I know about who got kidney problems did NOT get them from steroids.

They got the kidney problems from cutting down for contests and trying to get ripped. Taking diuretics, dehydrating themselves, bringing their bodyfat down to 5%, that's what makes these guys blow out their kidneys. Getting ready for contests go put themselves through hell.

Steroids only mess up your kidneys if you take tons of oral steroids. Injectable steroids barely phase your liver and kidneys.

I'm not sure why, but about 5 years ago the US government went on a huge anti-steroid campaign. And it worked. Now the average Joe in America thinks that steroids are pure evil and they think steroids can kill you.

Steroids CAN cause health problems. But the chances of them killing you are about like getting struck by lightning.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:14 PM
 
610 posts, read 1,292,715 times
Reputation: 523
I think nomad refugee just watched "BIGGER FASTER STRONGER* the side effects of being american" by Christopher bell. Entertaining documentary, but hardly a scientific one. Opinions of a few doctors and athletes can't be taken as facts by anyone unless he himself wants it to be true.

have steroids gotten a bad reputation past its actual danger? yes of course it has!, this does not mean they are as safe as the documentary implies. the correlation between steroids and developing various cronic damages on the body is relatively high.

I have a friend who used steroids for a couple of years, he's still convinced they were great for making him the muclemountain he is today, but he's got a resting pulse of 100 beats/minute although he is only 26. He blames genetics, and his deskjob for it, but really? resting pulse of 100 blank when he's 26? the doctor who made the check didn't believe it, and tested it 3 times with 2 different methods. it varied 95-103.

Now I don't think anyone can actually prove that this was a side effect from the steroids, but I highly doubt that he would have to pump his heart 100 times per minute unless it had been through something it shouldn't...
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:02 AM
 
465 posts, read 461,763 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsgeek20 View Post
I think nomad refugee just watched "BIGGER FASTER STRONGER* the side effects of being american" by Christopher bell. Entertaining documentary, but hardly a scientific one. Opinions of a few doctors and athletes can't be taken as facts by anyone unless he himself wants it to be true.

have steroids gotten a bad reputation past its actual danger? yes of course it has!, this does not mean they are as safe as the documentary implies. the correlation between steroids and developing various cronic damages on the body is relatively high.

I have a friend who used steroids for a couple of years, he's still convinced they were great for making him the muclemountain he is today, but he's got a resting pulse of 100 beats/minute although he is only 26. He blames genetics, and his deskjob for it, but really? resting pulse of 100 blank when he's 26? the doctor who made the check didn't believe it, and tested it 3 times with 2 different methods. it varied 95-103.

Now I don't think anyone can actually prove that this was a side effect from the steroids, but I highly doubt that he would have to pump his heart 100 times per minute unless it had been through something it shouldn't...
Actually i've never watched that movie before. I should check it out.

About your friend. His heart rate is probably high because he is carrying too much body weight. It doesn't matter whether the weight you carry is muscle or fat. Either way, your heart has gotta work overtime to pump the blood to all that tissue.

How much does this guy weigh? Indeed, it is unhealthy to carry too much body weight.

Some steroids do raise your blood pressure while they are active in your system. But after the effects of the steroid has worn off your blood pressure will return to normal. Similar to the effect of drinking caffiene.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Between Heaven And Hell.
13,536 posts, read 9,959,227 times
Reputation: 16924
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsgeek20 View Post
I think nomad refugee just watched "BIGGER FASTER STRONGER* the side effects of being american" by Christopher bell. Entertaining documentary, but hardly a scientific one. Opinions of a few doctors and athletes can't be taken as facts by anyone unless he himself wants it to be true.

have steroids gotten a bad reputation past its actual danger? yes of course it has!, this does not mean they are as safe as the documentary implies. the correlation between steroids and developing various cronic damages on the body is relatively high.

I have a friend who used steroids for a couple of years, he's still convinced they were great for making him the muclemountain he is today, but he's got a resting pulse of 100 beats/minute although he is only 26. He blames genetics, and his deskjob for it, but really? resting pulse of 100 blank when he's 26? the doctor who made the check didn't believe it, and tested it 3 times with 2 different methods. it varied 95-103.

Now I don't think anyone can actually prove that this was a side effect from the steroids, but I highly doubt that he would have to pump his heart 100 times per minute unless it had been through something it shouldn't...
I have a resting pulse of 115 at the moment, I have never taken anabolic steroids.
Vary rarely has a Doctor shown any interest in my high pulse rate, that is, other than when it hit 196 while resting.
Ok maybe I am a bit under the weather at the moment, but it used to be higher.
Oh, the reason it got to 196 bpm was that my cholesterol level was higher than could be measured.
I will admit though, that in the past especially while I was a child, I was treated with a number of drugs that have now been banned, some because they cause heart problems.

Lots of things need to be considered.

Oh well, that’s my bit, knocking on heavens door!
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:36 PM
 
Location: PNW, CPSouth, JacksonHole, Southampton
3,730 posts, read 5,729,349 times
Reputation: 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadRefugee View Post
Every bodybuilder I know about who got kidney problems did NOT get them from steroids.

They got the kidney problems from cutting down for contests and trying to get ripped. Taking diuretics, dehydrating themselves, bringing their bodyfat down to 5%, that's what makes these guys blow out their kidneys. Getting ready for contests go put themselves through hell.

Steroids only mess up your kidneys if you take tons of oral steroids. Injectable steroids barely phase your liver and kidneys.

I'm not sure why, but about 5 years ago the US government went on a huge anti-steroid campaign. And it worked. Now the average Joe in America thinks that steroids are pure evil and they think steroids can kill you.

Steroids CAN cause health problems. But the chances of them killing you are about like getting struck by lightning.
So true! I don't think most people realize the insane lengths competitive bodybuilders go to, in order to get 'ripped to shreds' for contests. They consume diets far too high in Protein (members of the Scott Expedition in the Arctic tried to survive on an all-meat version of 'Pemmican'. They perished. By contrast, a competing group of Norwegians consumed a more balanced variety of Pemmican, and did quite well). They starve themselves, and, to boost metabolism and maintain energy levels for workouts, frequently use Cocaine, Ephedrine, or Meth.

Then, prior to contest time, competitive bodybuilders start taking diuretics. They abuse diuretics. And many smear bronzing goop all over themselves and/or roast themselves in Tanning Beds.

The synergistic effect of unhealthy diet, hypoglycemia from starvation, breakdown of the Heart Muscle by the starving body, the toxic effect of whatever stimulants the bodybuilder is using, the cascade of Free Radicals from over-tanning....all this is compounded by the dehydrated body's inability to effectively eliminate the toxins being generated.

Even when Steroids and HGH are not involved, Competitive Bodybuilding as it exists today is a recipe for disaster.
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:02 PM
 
465 posts, read 461,763 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
So true! I don't think most people realize the insane lengths competitive bodybuilders go to, in order to get 'ripped to shreds' for contests. They consume diets far too high in Protein (members of the Scott Expedition in the Arctic tried to survive on an all-meat version of 'Pemmican'. They perished. By contrast, a competing group of Norwegians consumed a more balanced variety of Pemmican, and did quite well). They starve themselves, and, to boost metabolism and maintain energy levels for workouts, frequently use Cocaine, Ephedrine, or Meth.

Then, prior to contest time, competitive bodybuilders start taking diuretics. They abuse diuretics. And many smear bronzing goop all over themselves and/or roast themselves in Tanning Beds.

The synergistic effect of unhealthy diet, hypoglycemia from starvation, breakdown of the Heart Muscle by the starving body, the toxic effect of whatever stimulants the bodybuilder is using, the cascade of Free Radicals from over-tanning....all this is compounded by the dehydrated body's inability to effectively eliminate the toxins being generated.

Even when Steroids and HGH are not involved, Competitive Bodybuilding as it exists today is a recipe for disaster.
Totally true. If you look at these guys on contest day, their faces are all sucked in and they look malnourished, exhausted and dehydrated. They really screw themselves up just to get ripped.

And their drug regiman is insane. T3, clenbuterol, HGH, insulin, DNP, stimulants, and all the anabolic steroids stacked on top of each other. Combined with an unhealthy ultra low carb diet, diuretics and dehydration.

Jay Cutler, who won the 2010 Mr. Olympia told the media that after the contest he suffered the effects of severe dehydration right after the contest, and his friends had to carry him to his house where he felt like he was about to die.

Bodybuilders go through this stuff. But the average gym rate who does a little steroids to get bigger and stronger will never face these kind of health issues.

Most of these anti-steroid people online really don't know much about steroids at all. If you ask them to list the names of common steroids, they won't be able to name them. ANd in general they just don't know any of the details. It's funny. They just rehash what they heard usually.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Toledo
3,860 posts, read 8,433,327 times
Reputation: 3732
^^^^^^

Why does the average gym rat feel the need to use drugs to be bigger and stronger? Why not just be the best you can be naturally? Who are they competing against? Or is it just vanity?
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