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With few exceptions, NFL quarterbacks are tall - over 6'4 or taller. Height is an advantage because it allows them to see over other players as they look for receivers to throw to.
This is a good point. Doug Flutie is one of the shortest QBs at 5'9". I guess I could bump her up to 5'10", but I'd rather not go any taller. In which case I'd have to revise all of my previous questions about weight.
This is a good point. Doug Flutie is one of the shortest QBs at 5'9". I guess I could bump her up to 5'10", but I'd rather not go any taller. In which case I'd have to revise all of my previous questions about weight.
I think you should revise your story and make it about a smoking hot Lingere Football quarterback who had such Michael Vick like and Payton Manning like skills that they wanted to put her on a small college team. This way, the chick would have to be SMOKING HOT which would help you to get this green-lighted.
Dont even think about having her do NFL because that would be just looney tunes.
This is a good point. Doug Flutie is one of the shortest QBs at 5'9". I guess I could bump her up to 5'10", but I'd rather not go any taller. In which case I'd have to revise all of my previous questions about weight.
Flutie's height is *the* reason that he didn't make it big in the NFL. I'll bet there are only a couple NFL starters shorter than 6' 1". I think the average is about 6'3" or better.
Almost all NFL starters were child prodigies. Almost all were the best athlete in their high school. Most people have no idea just how good of an athlete that you must be in order to be a starter. It may not look that way because they cancel each other out.
I wasn't a "top tier" athlete in high school yet I absolutely crushed our best female athletes....in tennis and basketball.
I'm all about people doing what they want (if there are no victims) but your idea is about as realistic as me flying to the Moon.
Now if you will excuse me, I am preparing to compete in the upcoming Miss America contest.
This is a good point. Doug Flutie is one of the shortest QBs at 5'9". I guess I could bump her up to 5'10", but I'd rather not go any taller. In which case I'd have to revise all of my previous questions about weight.
If your character is fast and can jump, she could be a defensive back or wide receiver. Several have been sub 6 feet and performed at the top level. If she is a DB, she needs to have a certain vicious streak though to tackle offensive players with authority.
Why not tennis or volleyball or basketball or gymnastics or swimming or ice skating or track & field? I'm sure that many women are better athletes than I ever was. But to pick NFL quarterback? Possibly the most prestiguous position in team sports? Where the best athlete that you ever knew had less than a 1 in a million chance in becoming?
Many states have never produced a single NFL quarterback. The NFL requires bone crushing strength and the ability to play through five of the equivalent of "car accidents" every Sunday. Having XL hands and a weight well over 200 pounds is almost a necessity.
I see Dick Butkus or Jack Lambert hitting a female quarterback..............you don't want to know the rest. They didn't try to end careers, they tried to end lives.
The NFL is a rumble amongst the toughest, strongest, meanest, fastest men in the nation. Every play is a fight that may break the bones of 300 pound men who can bench over 500 pounds.
They may be cool off the field. Have a couple drinks and listen to how many bodies they busted up in high school and college. Bodies that *were* in the top 10% for toughness.
What I think of those pics: basically, very sexy. I do think the shoulders look a bit more mannish than what I'd consider ideal for a woman's appearance, but looking at the overall appearance in these pics, I think it's sexy. The confident demeanor is attractive as well. I could overlook the shoulders. Ten or fifteen pounds more muscle would be too much for my taste.
What she might weigh: This really is a guess, but my guess would be maybe around 135-140.
Whether the character could have twice an NFL quarterback's ability to read defenses, etc.: This one's tough to answer because it's purely a matter of speculation. Since this story is science fiction, I think you can give yourself a certain license with the abilities the character can develop by means of intensive mental training. In order to make it credible that she would be able to develop this mental capacity to this level, you'd really need to have her get the kind of intensive, holistic, well planned mental stimulation, and environment designed to be conducive to developing these qualities, that you're talking about.
About the sports you have in mind: First, with martial arts, as I said in an earlier post, if, aside from the science fiction speculation, this is to be a realistic story, you're going to be limited to the martial arts that have been included in the Olympics. I don't know the exact year they first had Tae Kwan Do, but I think it was later than the time period you're talking about. I'm pretty sure that if your character were to compete in the Olympics in the '60's or 70's, Judo would be the only martial art she could participate in. Even setting the story at a later time (which it sounds as if you may not want to do, because you'll want to have the character have to deal with the most possible challenge resulting from attitudes against women's particiapation in sports), if it's in the Olympics, you're limited to a choice between Judo and Tae Kwan Do.
I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing they have women's events in martial arts in the Olympics. Whether or not they do, I think you've got a problem with the idea of having her compete against men in the Olympics. If their are women's competitions, the character would presumably be expected to compete against other women. If not, I don't think it's realistic to have a female character competing successfully agains men in the Olympics.
The same point people have made about NFL quarterbacks--that they are the very best of the very best--applies to any sport at the highest levels. A male athlete in the Olympics, being that the Olympics involve the world's best athletes at Olympic sports, will always be better than the best female athletes in the same sports. The female athletes at that top level could wipe the floor with the average non-athletic, or casually athletic, man, but they would be overmatched against the world's best male athletes. There's just that much difference between men and women in terms of physical capacity.
Take a second look at the point I made in an earlier post about times in the mile run. Here are two links related to that:
The first linked page shows the best mile times ever by high school boys in Massachusetts (which is the state I chose simply because that's where I live). The second link goes to a page with various pieces of info about the mile run and times in the race. According to that second link, the women's world record in the mile is 4:12.56. Check the MA high school page, and you'll see that in MA, 14 high school boys--that's HIGH SCHOOL . . . BOYS . . . KIDS--have run faster than the fastest time any woman in the world has ever run the mile. And that's in a state with a medium to medium-large population. I have to think that in California, for example, there are many more high school boys who have beaten the women's world record time. I think you'd find a similar disparity between male and female in any sport testing any sort of physical capacity. I don't mean to knock women here, but simply to be realistic about the physical differences between the sexes. Those differences are real, and they mean that no woman can compete with the BEST male ahtletes in any sport that requires any sort of physical power, as opposed to being strictly a test of skill. A talented and well trained female athlete would win easily against a man of average athletic ability in most sports, but against the best male athletes in the world, at the highest levels of competition, she just would not be able to match up.
Specifically about football: and more specifically about the NFL . . . I have a few thoughts on the problem with thinking it would be realistic to believe that a woman could play in the NFL.
First let's look at the quarterback position. There is more to playing quarterback than reading defenses. The ability to do so is already something that NFL quarterbacks have in spades, but even if we assume that a reader could be encouraged to believe that someone with the kind of intensive mental development you want to give your character could read defenses twice as well as an NFL quarterback, there are other considerations. I don't have any idea how hard or far an especially talented woman would be able to throw a football, but, for the same reason I've been repeating--the physical differences between the sexes, and resultant disadvantage even an able female athlete would have against the very best male athletes--I'm sure that she would be unable to throw like an NFL quarterback. There are at least two problems with this when it comes to the effect on a game: First, the fact that she would not be able to throw the ball as far as a male quarterback would limit the plays her team could run. Second, because the female quarterback would not throw as hard as a male, the ball would be in the air longer, and therefore more likely to be intercepted. It may not be easy to see this on television, but very often a quarterback throwing a pass really threads the needle between defenders who are just out of reach of the ball. Give them an extra half a second or second or whatever because the quarterback does not throw as hard as NFL quarterbacks do, and they're going to cover that extra distance, and either swat the ball down or intercept it.
You also need to realize that quarterbacks do more than simply initiate plays by handing off or passing to teammates. They also tackle and block. In the event of a turnover caused by a fumble or an interception, as the player on the defending team who has recovered the ball runs down the field, every player on the team that was on offense suddenly becomes a defensive player responsible for trying to tackle the guy with the ball. Quarterbacks block on some plays as well, running down the field alongside a teammate carrying the ball after receiving a handoff or pitchout from the QB, blocking out opponets trying to run in and tackle the teammate with the ball. I'm just not seeing a 140-pound woman successfully blocking NFL players, or being fast enough to keep up with the teammate carrying the ball, again keeping in mind that the NFL players are the best of the best in their sport.
Consider all of the above, and then add in yet another role a quarterback will fill sometimes, which is to keep the ball and run straingt ahead to try and gain short yardage, a play which often depends on the QB's ability to simply power ahead a short distance against defenders trying to push him back, and I just don't see a woman in the NFL. I have to disagree with JazzNBlues as well, about the idea that your character might be able to be an NFL defensive back, just because some DB's would be about her height. They might be her height, or only an inch or two taller, but they would also weigh 180-190 pounds, more in some cases. DB's will often be the smallest players on a football team, but in the pros, the 180-190 range is about as small as it gets. I don't see your character possessing the size, speed, and quickness in combination that the NFL defensive backs have.
There's yet another issue with your ideas for your character's athletic exploits. This one does not necessarily involve physical differences between the sexes, but is about how difficult it's going to be for any athlete, male or female, to succeed at the highest levels in more than one sport. There's more than athletic prowess needed to reach the top level in any sport. This also requires years of work on developing the skills particular to the athlete's sport. It's exceedingly rare for even a marvelously gifted athlete to be able to spend the time needed to develop the highest possible skill in more than one sport.
It has happened on rare occasions that an athlete has succeeded at the highest levels in two sports (Deion Sanders for example), but it's so unusual that I'd have to say that when you add this to the fact that it's unrealistic to expect a female athlete to compete with males at the highest level even in any one sport, I think you need to adjust your story if at all possible. I like Lao's idea about having your character play football at a small college. I had planned to make a similar suggestion, except I had planned to suggest having her play high school ball.
You probably need to adjust with the idea of martial arts competition as well. One possibiltiy, if it would fit the story, would be to have the character have use martial arts skills in an actual self-defense situation rather than in competition. You could have the would-be mugger, rapist, whatever, be some big tough guy. Though it's unrealistic to think that a female martial artist could compete with the most well trained, highly skilled male athletes in the world in an Olympic martial arts tournament, it's not unrealistic to think that a highly skilled female martial artist could defend herself against an everyday thug, even if he were big and strong enough to seem like a formidable threat. If that kind of situation works in the story, one thing I would suggest to make it realistic would be for her not to have too easy a time defeating the attacker. It should really be a desperate fight to make it ring true.
It really depends on the story you have in mind, but I can see the possibility of a very poignant story that rings of hard-hitting reality with a female athlete playing football at a high school or small college, developing a high level of martial arts skill and using it in a real fight, becoming aware as she attempts to move to higher levels of sport that she can't necessarily compete with the top male athletes, but resolving to be the best athlete, and the best person living the fullest life, that she can be, and focusing on striving to be her best through mental as well as physical training. Just a thought.
I am writing a story in which one of the female characters is a body builder (and overall very athletic). I would like to make this aspect of her life as realistic as I can. Any insights that any of you might have concerning the physical and psychological aspects of body building and/or other athletics - especially for women - will be appreciated.
Some background on the character: She will become an actress taking strong female action/adventure roles (think of "Warrior Princess," or "Lara Croft," etc.) With body building, she will be aiming for genuine strength and some good muscle definition - but not so much that she totally loses the ability to "look feminine" when necessary - i.e., no big bulging, vein-popping muscles - just an ability to flex some very noticeable muscles (especially arms and stomach) for the camera. She will be 5'8" with lots of martial arts training (started in childhood), and gymnastics training. She will not be taking steroids (do women even do that?)
Any and all relevant thoughts are welcome, but here are a few specific questions that I can think of at the moment:
What weights could she realistically lift? What are the most common weight/rep measures that body builders usually talk about? I'm not very familiar with the lingo, so I need some help here.
As a trainer or competitor, I have never dealt with bodybuilders - I refuse to deal with anyone who is so focused on appearance as opposed to athleticism or functionality. That said, I have worked with, as a partner or trainer, several very powerful female athletes, including martial artists. I have dealt with some women who could lift very impressive amounts of weight. I know one very small female world champion who could bench twice her weight (she weighed 105 and benched 220). I know a couple of larger women who could squat 550 lbs.
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How much would she be likely to weight (5'8" pure muscle)?
I have a couple of martial artist friends who range from about 135 to 170 lbs, all of them very strong and muscular.
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Could a woman be in the Olympics for martial arts in the late 1970s thru early 80s?
There were no combat sports for women in the Olympics until 1992, when judo was finally added. Taekwondo was added in 1996 for both men and women; women's wrestling came in 2004 and women's boxing will come in 2012.
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How might her overall strength compare to, say, an average quarterback in the NFL? Is there any reason her throwing arm couldn't be as good as any NFL quarterback?
A woman will never play any position other than kicker in college, and a woman will never play in the NFL. They are simply not strong or fast enough, nor are they capable of taking the punishment.
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If you happen to know of any books or movies (biographies or fiction) that might be of interest to me, or help me gain some insight into what it might be like - physically, mentally, socially - for a young woman to pursue these traditionally male-dominated interests, please offer suggestions. I would also be interested in stories of what it is like for women to pursue male-dominated athletics (What if she wanted to play football or baseball in high school or college? Would she ever compete against men in martial arts competitions?)
The pioneer of women's judo in America, Rena "Rusty" Kanokogi, used to compete against men in local competitions in New York when she was coming up in the 1960s, simply because there were no competitions available for women. She was truly one of the greatest female judoka ever. But even Rusty could never have won against even good male competition, much less elite male competition in America, much less internationally.
If your character is fast and can jump, she could be a defensive back or wide receiver. Several have been sub 6 feet and performed at the top level. If she is a DB, she needs to have a certain vicious streak though to tackle offensive players with authority.
So the consensus here seems to be that if the greatest QB in history (pick whoever you want for this role) were to wake up and discover that he is now in a female body that is in the best possible condition for power, speed, etc. that is possible, given a 5'10" female physiology, he could not survive in the NFL. Even if he/she discovers that now his/her brain processes environmental stimuli twice as fast as it did when he was a man (so, in effect, he/she has "twice as much time" to spot open receivers, analyze the evolution of the defensive play, etc. - sorta like he/she sees the play unfolding in slow-motion), he/she still could still not survive in the NFL. (BTW, this is not my actual plot, but it gets at the basic principles of what I am trying to understand). If this is correct, then I'm glad I asked, cuz I did not realize this.
Now I have to wonder if the general sci-fi reading public would share the same view.
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