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Old 03-20-2012, 01:32 PM
 
3,322 posts, read 7,976,185 times
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I read Tim Ferriss "Four Hour Body" last year and adopted a few things from the book. I don't eat nearly as much grain. The diet in the book is pretty damn tough and IMO, is meant for weight loss and I don't need to lose any weight. However, his five seconds up and five seconds down per rep for 8 reps is intense. I did it for a few weeks but didn't feel any soreness after but its a great great workout if you are in a rush.

With that said, I'm 26 and I've been working out for nine year. Over the years, I've seen people sack on the plates and burst thru reps. That sure looks cool but I don't think its as effective.

I've decided I don't want to ever need to use wraps around my knees when I leg press or my elbows when I bench press. I'm worried about if I do that now, how will my elbows and knees feel when I get older? Why not drop the weight and do the reps slower?

Now, I'm not a super muscular dude but I do use weighs when I do dips and pullups. I can feel the extra tension on my elbows when I use weighs as I dip.

Is my concern warranted? Anyone else doing slower reps with lower weights?
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,117 posts, read 5,370,793 times
Reputation: 1533
Think of weight moved as force. Force is mass x acceleration.

Take 135 pounds, if you push it with xx acceleration, you are totalling 200lbs of force.

Take that same 135 pounds, push it with a very slow acceleration (slower reps), and you're totalling 180lbs force.

OR...

Take 150 pounds, push it with slower acceleration than you did with the previous 135.. and you may total a force of 170 pounds.

The concentric portion (lowering) should take 1-3 seconds, but it's the eccentric portation that matter. It must be fast (with heavy weight) to induce max force.

If you're 1RM is 300 lbs, you should be pushing various reps and sets to equal 300LBS or greater, no less than 50% 1RM. So, you shouldn't be lifting anything less than 150 (or 50% 1RM), because strength gain diminishes due to your body and its inability to make up acceleration for loss of mass (below 50% 1RM, or 150lbs). So, say in three week waves you lift 5-10 sets of 3, of 50% (150) 60-70%. Or, 70-80-90. But, those reps must equal a force of your 1RM. So, if you're trying to pound out close to your one rep max, your speed diminishes so force diminishes.. and the more you push at close to your max, strength gains diminish.

So, if you're doing 12-15 reps, at whatever speed.. you're inducing sacroplasmic hypertrophy.. growing the outter part of the muscle, not the inner part..which is much more dense and is responsible for strength (myofibiller..3-5 reps, heavy weight...that defined as 50-90% of your 1RM).

When you lift properly, your joints will get stronger in comparison to your muscles. Doctor took a look at my knees (I squat between 225-405 consistantly), and said my knees were very strong (in regards to the joints).

As I stated before.. if someone is putting on weight and pushing with utmost acceleration, progress will not occur. Say the guys 1RM is 300 lbs...he puts on 100 pounds, which is approx. 35-40% of his 1RM. His body will not push the weight fast enough to equal a force that will induce any sort of muscle hypertrophy.

Five



EliteFTS.com: So You Think You Can Bench? - YouTube


EliteFTS.com: So You Think You Can Squat Part 1 - YouTube
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:12 PM
 
5,616 posts, read 15,525,108 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommodonahue View Post
Think of weight moved as force. Force is mass x acceleration.

Take 135 pounds, if you push it with xx acceleration, you are totalling 200lbs of force.

Take that same 135 pounds, push it with a very slow acceleration (slower reps), and you're totalling 180lbs force.

OR...

Take 150 pounds, push it with slower acceleration than you did with the previous 135.. and you may total a force of 170 pounds.

The concentric portion (lowering) should take 1-3 seconds, but it's the eccentric portation that matter. It must be fast (with heavy weight) to induce max force.

If you're 1RM is 300 lbs, you should be pushing various reps and sets to equal 300LBS or greater, no less than 50% 1RM. So, you shouldn't be lifting anything less than 150 (or 50% 1RM), because strength gain diminishes due to your body and its inability to make up acceleration for loss of mass (below 50% 1RM, or 150lbs). So, say in three week waves you lift 5-10 sets of 3, of 50% (150) 60-70%. Or, 70-80-90. But, those reps must equal a force of your 1RM. So, if you're trying to pound out close to your one rep max, your speed diminishes so force diminishes.. and the more you push at close to your max, strength gains diminish.

So, if you're doing 12-15 reps, at whatever speed.. you're inducing sacroplasmic hypertrophy.. growing the outter part of the muscle, not the inner part..which is much more dense and is responsible for strength (myofibiller..3-5 reps, heavy weight...that defined as 50-90% of your 1RM).

When you lift properly, your joints will get stronger in comparison to your muscles. Doctor took a look at my knees (I squat between 225-405 consistantly), and said my knees were very strong (in regards to the joints).

As I stated before.. if someone is putting on weight and pushing with utmost acceleration, progress will not occur. Say the guys 1RM is 300 lbs...he puts on 100 pounds, which is approx. 35-40% of his 1RM. His body will not push the weight fast enough to equal a force that will induce any sort of muscle hypertrophy.

Five



EliteFTS.com: So You Think You Can Bench? - YouTube


EliteFTS.com: So You Think You Can Squat Part 1 - YouTube
oh my you do seem like you understand this good. Can you explain whats best to grow muscle and make it easier. Just tell us what to do in weight and reps? This hurt my head. But you do seem smart!!! Marilyn
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:25 PM
 
Location: SoCal - Sherman Oaks & Woodland Hills
12,974 posts, read 33,970,410 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dub D View Post
However, his five seconds up and five seconds down per rep for 8 reps is intense.
This is not too far off of Darden's HIT (High Intensity Training) principals that I have been harping on about for years here. You can take 60%-70% of your 1RM and do slow controlled movements on both the negative and positive with no stopping or speeding up/slowing down between transitions and you have HIT.

For me, it produced the most amazing results in both size and strength increases (along with following a specific nutrtional intake). But I swear by it. Its THAT good. Thing is you ABSOLUTELY HAVE to use a weight that makes you fail by the 8th-10th rep of the set. If you can 11 reps then the weight is too light. If you cant do at least 8 reps then the weight is too heavy.
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,117 posts, read 5,370,793 times
Reputation: 1533
I disagree Lao (for the first time ever). Speaking in terms of 'too light', 'failure' '8th-10th' rep, is a bit devoid of information, planning and programming. It's too broad. It's important to understand the concepts rather than read and repeat.
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:48 PM
 
Location: SoCal - Sherman Oaks & Woodland Hills
12,974 posts, read 33,970,410 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommodonahue View Post
I disagree Lao (for the first time ever). Speaking in terms of 'too light', 'failure' '8th-10th' rep, is a bit devoid of information, planning and programming. It's too broad. It's important to understand the concepts rather than read and repeat.
I totally get ya on this. Next time you are in a B&N, pickup "The NEW HIT Training" book and read through it. It goes into detail about pretty much everything. That type of training (HIT) really has given me the best results of anything I have ever done. But its a complete program (kinda like Max-OT), where I cut, then bulk, all while doing specific whole body routines (DL, bench press, overhead press, squats, weighted pullups, etc.). I have always been a "skinny" guy, more of a cornerback than a linebacker, but dude, I tell you, that slow controlled movement on both the negative and positive kicked my you-know-what and really did wonders.
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:53 PM
 
3,322 posts, read 7,976,185 times
Reputation: 2852
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoTzuMindFu View Post
This is not too far off of Darden's HIT (High Intensity Training) principals that I have been harping on about for years here. You can take 60%-70% of your 1RM and do slow controlled movements on both the negative and positive with no stopping or speeding up/slowing down between transitions and you have HIT.

For me, it produced the most amazing results in both size and strength increases (along with following a specific nutrtional intake). But I swear by it. Its THAT good. Thing is you ABSOLUTELY HAVE to use a weight that makes you fail by the 8th-10th rep of the set. If you can 11 reps then the weight is too light. If you cant do at least 8 reps then the weight is too heavy.

Yea, it sounds very similar. However, he doesn't include bench pressings and other gym stuff. He focuses on pushups and other body weight stuff so I kinda combined the two myself.

Do you only do one set of this?

I've been doing what I guess is called static lifting. I just decided to do this figuring shocking my muscles will be fun. I do 5-6 reps of 75-85% of my 1RM then drop down to 40-50% of my IRM and do another 5-6 reps right away. I do three sets of this and I usually need to drop down to 65-75% on my last rep. I really enjoy doing this as its much harder than doing 10 reps. I'm not sure how effective it is though.
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,117 posts, read 5,370,793 times
Reputation: 1533
I focus on max force...since it will give me the most efficient means of gaining strength. If I want to condition, max force (6-12 sets of 1-3 reps at whatever % of 1RM), 40 seconds in between sets. Bands/chains also great for accomodating resistance. Pylometrics are another amazing thing for strength
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:12 PM
 
22,665 posts, read 24,619,009 times
Reputation: 20347
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommodonahue View Post
Think of weight moved as force. Force is mass x acceleration.

Take 135 pounds, if you push it with xx acceleration, you are totalling 200lbs of force.

Take that same 135 pounds, push it with a very slow acceleration (slower reps), and you're totalling 180lbs force.

OR...

Take 150 pounds, push it with slower acceleration than you did with the previous 135.. and you may total a force of 170 pounds.

The concentric portion (lowering) should take 1-3 seconds, but it's the eccentric portation that matter. It must be fast (with heavy weight) to induce max force.

If you're 1RM is 300 lbs, you should be pushing various reps and sets to equal 300LBS or greater, no less than 50% 1RM. So, you shouldn't be lifting anything less than 150 (or 50% 1RM), because strength gain diminishes due to your body and its inability to make up acceleration for loss of mass (below 50% 1RM, or 150lbs). So, say in three week waves you lift 5-10 sets of 3, of 50% (150) 60-70%. Or, 70-80-90. But, those reps must equal a force of your 1RM. So, if you're trying to pound out close to your one rep max, your speed diminishes so force diminishes.. and the more you push at close to your max, strength gains diminish.

So, if you're doing 12-15 reps, at whatever speed.. you're inducing sacroplasmic hypertrophy.. growing the outter part of the muscle, not the inner part..which is much more dense and is responsible for strength (myofibiller..3-5 reps, heavy weight...that defined as 50-90% of your 1RM).

When you lift properly, your joints will get stronger in comparison to your muscles. Doctor took a look at my knees (I squat between 225-405 consistantly), and said my knees were very strong (in regards to the joints).

As I stated before.. if someone is putting on weight and pushing with utmost acceleration, progress will not occur. Say the guys 1RM is 300 lbs...he puts on 100 pounds, which is approx. 35-40% of his 1RM. His body will not push the weight fast enough to equal a force that will induce any sort of muscle hypertrophy.

Five



EliteFTS.com: So You Think You Can Bench? - YouTube


EliteFTS.com: So You Think You Can Squat Part 1 - YouTube

This post nails it.......a lot of the work you get depends on how you lift the weight.

I read the book "Power, a scientific approach" by Dr Fred Hatfield.....the concepts really point you towards a weight-lifting approach that builds explosiveness.
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,117 posts, read 5,370,793 times
Reputation: 1533
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
This post nails it.......a lot of the work you get depends on how you lift the weight.

I read the book "Power, a scientific approach" by Dr Fred Hatfield.....the concepts really point you towards a weight-lifting approach that builds explosiveness.
agree
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