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I have been (but am not currently,) super ripped in every area of my body except my calves and my chest. When I was in my 20's I had colossal shoulders and arms but my chest barely expanded much. My calves had a similar relationship with my quads--they were long and skinny and my quads looked so very angry. My dad had the same physique so I figured it's just genetics and I can't do anything about it.
I think the implication is pretty clear, the squat is better for building overall mass and strength than the leg press.
Again, not even close to what he said, but that's what you would like to hear.
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The only other competitor is the deadlift. The leg press is a mere accessory exercise in comparison. This is coming from someone who does all three exercises. I'm speaking from experience.
And I've been doing all three since I was 14 or so, plus unlike you (and more on this below) I understand basic human biology and physiology.
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No, it's not nonsense. Just ask the strongest people in the world which exercise is better. They'll tell you that the leg press isn't even in the same ballpark. A lot of folks think it's nothing but a waste of time.
Do you really want to go down the rabbit hole of some of the **** that has come out of the mouth of meathead bodybuilders and powerlifters? I don't think you're going to like the results. Personally, I prefer to get my knowledge from people like McDonald, Aragon, Schoenfeld...etc, guys who actually have formal education in these matters and teach the meatheads how to do it.
(Also, and for the record, even the famously anti-machine/bodybuilding and pro-barbell Mark Rippetoe had a very good discussion with Lyle on his now defunct StrengthMill forum about that very same article you posted and essentially agreed with everything Lyle said)
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The squat hits a lot more muscles than the leg press which is nothing but a quad workout for the most part. I can bang out reps on the leg press like there's no tomorrow after doing heavy deadlifts. I can not do that with squats, not even close.
Lol, really? So you're saying that the guys who did the leg press had the same strength as the guys who did squats? What measure of strength are you talking about? There's no way that someone who does nothing but leg presses can squat comparable weight to someone who squats heavy. It's apples and oranges. Maybe you are talking about the amount of weight that they can bench press or something. Or how many push ups or pull ups they can do.
First, you do realize that the primary muscle used in a squat (the quads) is the exact same primary muscle used in the leg press, right? With that understanding, I'd challenge you to give me any logical reason why a person who builds their quad strength (a function of tension, overload and progression) with a squat is going to be stronger than the person doing the same with a leg press. As far as the quad is concerned, the only difference between a leg press and a squat is that the incline of the leg press will allow for the moving of more absolute weight.
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It sounds like doing squats is too much for you now but that's no reason to try and downplay the exercise. There were some folks saying the same thing about the deadlift because they were afraid of getting injured. Claiming that the leg press and squat are comparable is ridiculous.
LOL! Your thinly veiled attempt at ad hominem aside, these are clearly the quotes of someone who is downplaying the squat.
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Like the author, I love squats, but lately I have been doing more leg presses. If I am working out alone I usually stick to the leg press because I am such a form Nazi that I want a trusted partner (usually my brother) watching my form as well.
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Nonsense. A squat done properly (as should all lifts) is perfectly safe. The instances that you are talking about were either horrible, horrible form or people just doing absurd amounts of weights.
I could post more, but you get the point.
Oh, and while I didn't want to have to play the "bro" card, what's your PR on a squat? If it doesn't start with a "5", you're not even close to mine.
I have been (but am not currently,) super ripped in every area of my body except my calves and my chest. When I was in my 20's I had colossal shoulders and arms but my chest barely expanded much. My calves had a similar relationship with my quads--they were long and skinny and my quads looked so very angry. My dad had the same physique so I figured it's just genetics and I can't do anything about it.
I can't wait to meet someone in real life who has big calves
I think squats are excellent, I hope I never gave the impression that I don't think squats are pretty much the champion / ultimate leg strength measurement / exercise. I just don't do squats for a variety of reasons, or I don't do heavy squats, but the primary reason is i don't have a training partner so even on bench press I must be VERY careful and understand my limits. It probably cuts my strength gains by a bit because I don't go to exhaustion every time, but I'm always close. I know what I can do.
You can absolutely built amazing quad strength doing nothing but leg press, though. I do a very all-around leg workout, 19 sets today for instance, that starts with leg press (with each set doing calves as well except my heaviest set) and then goes to hamstrings (curls) then back to quads (leg extensions) then to hip abductions and adductions, then to calf raises. I get a very good all-around workout doing that for every part of my legs.
My quads are enormous and I can push around a lot of weight. I have no doubt that squats by themselves work WAY more muscles than leg press, which is kind of a "duh" thing to say given that squats are such a full-body exercise. I just am not interested in having 300-400 pounds on my spine without a spotter and then giving that a go every week. I really don't care enough. All that matters to me is having big, strong quads, and I know genetically speaking my legs are stronger than almost anyone. If I want to do heavy squats -- which maybe I'll try soon, who knows, could be fun -- I'll work with a trainer for 10 sessions and I bet I'm squatting more than almost anyone is going to squat in their lifetime. I really don't care, though. If the squat is after all THE ultimate workout, then it should be absolutely no problem for anyone who brags about their squats to be doing the same 750 pounds I put on the leg press and do 15 times. I used to do 1,100 pounds. I'm assuming anyone who brags about squats can do more than that. If not, they shouldn't be bragging about them.
The usual excuse I hear: "Well I never do heavy leg press, because I'm too tired from doing squats!" Ok, well you probably work out your legs once per week. Go to the gym mid-week, when you're rested, do a few sets of leg press, you'll figure out quickly what you can leg press. My guess is most of these guys talking s**t because they only do squats can't leg press what I can, which means by definition their quads are weaker. Their overall lower body may be perfectly balanced for their squats, and maybe they can squat more than me, but it's pretty simple math that if leg press is just a quads exercise, if I can leg press more, my quads are bigger and stronger.
I'm never worried about proving anything on legs, though, I just laugh when people talk about their leg strength. I've never met anyone so far who has legs like mine, because I don't hang around professional lifters and that would be the only class of guys who would be putting up 1,000+ pounds on a leg press with perfect form.
I think squats are excellent, I hope I never gave the impression that I don't think squats are pretty much the champion / ultimate leg strength measurement / exercise. I just don't do squats for a variety of reasons, or I don't do heavy squats, but the primary reason is i don't have a training partner so even on bench press I must be VERY careful and understand my limits. It probably cuts my strength gains by a bit because I don't go to exhaustion every time, but I'm always close. I know what I can do.
You can absolutely built amazing quad strength doing nothing but leg press, though. I do a very all-around leg workout, 19 sets today for instance, that starts with leg press (with each set doing calves as well except my heaviest set) and then goes to hamstrings (curls) then back to quads (leg extensions) then to hip abductions and adductions, then to calf raises. I get a very good all-around workout doing that for every part of my legs.
My quads are enormous and I can push around a lot of weight. I have no doubt that squats by themselves work WAY more muscles than leg press, which is kind of a "duh" thing to say given that squats are such a full-body exercise. I just am not interested in having 300-400 pounds on my spine without a spotter and then giving that a go every week. I really don't care enough. All that matters to me is having big, strong quads, and I know genetically speaking my legs are stronger than almost anyone. If I want to do heavy squats -- which maybe I'll try soon, who knows, could be fun -- I'll work with a trainer for 10 sessions and I bet I'm squatting more than almost anyone is going to squat in their lifetime. I really don't care, though. If the squat is after all THE ultimate workout, then it should be absolutely no problem for anyone who brags about their squats to be doing the same 750 pounds I put on the leg press and do 15 times. I used to do 1,100 pounds. I'm assuming anyone who brags about squats can do more than that. If not, they shouldn't be bragging about them.
The usual excuse I hear: "Well I never do heavy leg press, because I'm too tired from doing squats!" Ok, well you probably work out your legs once per week. Go to the gym mid-week, when you're rested, do a few sets of leg press, you'll figure out quickly what you can leg press. My guess is most of these guys talking s**t because they only do squats can't leg press what I can, which means by definition their quads are weaker. Their overall lower body may be perfectly balanced for their squats, and maybe they can squat more than me, but it's pretty simple math that if leg press is just a quads exercise, if I can leg press more, my quads are bigger and stronger.
I'm never worried about proving anything on legs, though, I just laugh when people talk about their leg strength. I've never met anyone so far who has legs like mine, because I don't hang around professional lifters and that would be the only class of guys who would be putting up 1,000+ pounds on a leg press with perfect form.
I started doing the leg press a couple of months ago. Since it's primarily a quad exercise it matches well with the conventional style deadlift. Anyway, I did my usual deadlift routine which is about 20 reps total of moderate to heavy weight. So afterwards I loaded up the leg press with 460 lbs total and did that for 15 reps. I added 90 more lbs and did 15 more reps. I kept adding 90 lbs until I reached the machine max of 820 lbs and did the same 15 reps. It was a good workout but it didn't work my quads, glutes and hamstrings as well as squats. Not to mention the fact that the lower back and torso are taken completely out of the equation.
I can do a light to moderate weight(no more than 1.5x bodyweight) squat workout of 50 reps and feel it a lot more than I do during my leg press workout. Maybe if the machine at the gym had more capacity. It's just that having a weight on your back, having to stabilize it, squat and get back up is a lot tougher than pushing loaded sled. Even if your legs are strong your torso and lower back could be weak points. I'm just speaking from my own personal experience here. I'm not going to provide links to studies or quote fitness gurus, power lifers, strength trainers or bodybuilders.
There are obviously other ways to strengthen your legs than squats but my strength training focuses on 4 lifts:bench press, squat, deadlift and overhead press. Those lifts pretty much work my entire body and the strength carries over to every other exercise I do at the gym. The leg press is a good exercise but it isn't the total body workout that the squat is nor does it provide the same overall strength gains.
First, you do realize that the primary muscle used in a squat (the quads) is the exact same primary muscle used in the leg press, right? With that understanding, I'd challenge you to give me any logical reason why a person who builds their quad strength (a function of tension, overload and progression) with a squat is going to be stronger than the person doing the same with a leg press. As far as the quad is concerned, the only difference between a leg press and a squat is that the incline of the leg press will allow for the moving of more absolute weight.
Well, the squat works the glutes a lot more than the leg press. It also works the hamstrings, back and torso a lot more. I've never had sore quads from doing the leg press. Can't say the same about squats.
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Originally Posted by Bosco55David
Oh, and while I didn't want to have to play the "bro" card, what's your PR on a squat? If it doesn't start with a "5", you're not even close to mine.
Depending on your weight that number may or may not be anything special. Also, if you've been performing the squat for 2 years or more I would expect a 2 to 2.5 times body weight squat. I've only been doing the squat for about 13 months, once per week and am approaching a 2.5 times body weight squat already. At this point I'm more concerned with form as I move up in weight. I haven't tried a 1 rep max on the squat in months. My estimate is 460 lbs or so at 198 lbs body weight. That number will exceed 500 lbs by the end of the year. None of this changes the fact that squats build more overall strength then the leg press.
Well, the squat works the glutes a lot more than the leg press. It also works the hamstrings, back and torso a lot more.
True, but that can be corrected in other lifts if one chose. Even using the depletion style workouts I'm on now, my hamstrings are getting hit with leg curls, back with back extensions and some torso with weighted crunches.
Once I've sufficiently leaned down I'm planning on switching to a bulking routine that will have me doing squats, SLDL and leg curls as well, but that will come in time.
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I've never had sore quads from doing the leg press. Can't say the same about squats.
I can get sore legs with leg press, but squats will kill them. No disagreement there.
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Depending on your weight that number may or may not be anything special. Also, if you've been performing the squat for 2 years or more I would expect a 2 to 2.5 times body weight squat. I've only been doing the squat for about 13 months, once per week and am approaching a 2.5 times body weight squat already. At this point I'm more concerned with form as I move up in weight. I haven't tried a 1 rep max on the squat in months. My estimate is 460 lbs or so at 198 lbs body weight. That number will exceed 500 lbs by the end of the year. None of this changes the fact that squats build more overall strength then the leg press.
I was probably 210-220 when that happened. Would have to go back and check though.
My quads are enormous and I can push around a lot of weight. I have no doubt that squats by themselves work WAY more muscles than leg press, which is kind of a "duh" thing to say given that squats are such a full-body exercise. I just am not interested in having 300-400 pounds on my spine without a spotter and then giving that a go every week. I really don't care enough. All that matters to me is having big, strong quads, and I know genetically speaking my legs are stronger than almost anyone. If I want to do heavy squats -- which maybe I'll try soon, who knows, could be fun -- I'll work with a trainer for 10 sessions and I bet I'm squatting more than almost anyone is going to squat in their lifetime. I really don't care, though. If the squat is after all THE ultimate workout, then it should be absolutely no problem for anyone who brags about their squats to be doing the same 750 pounds I put on the leg press and do 15 times. I used to do 1,100 pounds. I'm assuming anyone who brags about squats can do more than that. If not, they shouldn't be bragging about them.
No problem. I took a nice sample today. After deadlifting, and setting a new PR at 365 before moving to reps. I kept the reps light due to an irregular workout schedule the past few weeks, so did 2x5 at 305 and 2x5 at 275. Then I followed up with squats. I squat light on deadlift first days, deadlift light on squat first days. My squat routine today: 2x5 at 225, 1x5 at 245, and 1x5 at 265. Then I moved to leg press.
Now I didn't quite reach 750, and I don't do 15 reps at any exercise. I did 1x8 at 565, 1x8 at 635, 1x6 at 685, and 1x4 at 735. I recognize that isn't quit the challenge in bold, but after the amount of work performed I'd say it's close enough. My guess is fresh I could move at least another 100 pounds for a significant number of reps.
No problem. I took a nice sample today. After deadlifting, and setting a new PR at 365 before moving to reps. I kept the reps light due to an irregular workout schedule the past few weeks, so did 2x5 at 305 and 2x5 at 275. Then I followed up with squats. I squat light on deadlift first days, deadlift light on squat first days. My squat routine today: 2x5 at 225, 1x5 at 245, and 1x5 at 265. Then I moved to leg press.
Now I didn't quite reach 750, and I don't do 15 reps at any exercise. I did 1x8 at 565, 1x8 at 635, 1x6 at 685, and 1x4 at 735. I recognize that isn't quit the challenge in bold, but after the amount of work performed I'd say it's close enough. My guess is fresh I could move at least another 100 pounds for a significant number of reps.
Dayum!
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