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Old 07-19-2016, 06:39 PM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,187,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
I read your link and did not come to the same conclusion. This site is referencing the training methods of Soviet Olympic weightliftersfrom the 1960s up to 1990, so it is somewhat dated.

Some of the statements on this site are:



Not exactly the same as "Don't ever train until failure," or "often in the 70% range."



How is this stating, "Don't ever train until failure."

If I do a set of bench presses of 10 reps and fail on the last rep, what % of my reps were above 90% of 1RM?

The answer is none.
Why does it matter if it's dated if the records have not been broken? You can say because those athletes were on drugs, but so were the Americans, and so are the Americans and many other Olympic level athletes.

Regardless, I didn't post that article in reference to never training until failure. There is plenty of literature to support this, so I made an assumption that most people were familiar with that advice. Afterall, it is 2016.

All that article did was provide insight into the optimal weight training range of Soviet athletes. It is not the first study to conclude that the majority of your weight training should be in the 70% range for optimal results. That is not to say, you should never train in the 90-100% range, depending on your objectives, but generally one should train in 70% range to avoid overtraining while continuing to develop strength.

The following article makes a valid point on why athletes especially should train at sub-maximal levels. https://bretcontreras.com/is-the-max...-our-athletes/

More and more research is beginning to support this, but at the end of the day, it's your body and you can do whatever you want with it. Empirically though, don't you think it would make sense that you are more likely to be injured on your "failure" rep than you would with a set where you stopped prior to failure?

In any event, it's 2016. Do whatever you want to do. It's your body.
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:01 PM
 
1,976 posts, read 6,852,517 times
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I am well into my 40's. Started to get back into it in my early 40's. I learned what stretching/cooling down is just about then. I have to step on me ego and be careful with my weight increases. I do a lot of cardio/endurance and do not bulk up.

You ask about change; I took two weeks off due to vacation. Granted, it was an active vacation with 14 hrs per day walking around carrying a backpack full of stuff for the family. I went to the gym 2 days ago after the 2 week hiatus, and I can not squat the same weight I used to do easily before. I almost pulled my hamstring, so backed off and went to lighter plates and today I am aching all over. I still got my 10 K run in today but all this would not have been an issue in my 20's. My body has aged despite my denial.
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Old 07-20-2016, 01:19 PM
 
Location: SCW, AZ
8,301 posts, read 13,434,842 times
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@ Jobster; I tend to agree with what villageidiot1 stated to a certain degree. To me, there is a big difference between training with 70%-80% of max weight you can handle on any given exercise and training to the point of failure. Failure here, at least in my interpretation, is training until you can no longer do another rep while keeping the correct form needed. That is a must if you want to develop your muscles further, without exhausting your muscles, your body will not think it needs to build more muscle to accommodate the training.

Your point makes sense in the way that for everyday workouts for an average Joe/Jane, to use a weight that is 70%-80% of what they could lift max (for that particular exercise), but then naturally increase the number of reps and/or sets to -eventually- reach to point of failure. Of course those who are trying to lose/keep muscle mass would not do this. After all, muscle toning requires lower weights and higher reps.

Consequently, to be able to lift heavy, you need to strengthen your muscles and bones by lifting lighter weights but doing the reps slower and/or holding the weight at certain points during the move. Different muscle groups respond differently to training, it is based on the muscle type. Ultimately, it all boils down to what each individual is looking to accomplish with their training.

Another thing I notice in the gym is poor or improper breathing. Time to time I see people even holding their breath!
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Old 07-21-2016, 12:25 PM
 
2,209 posts, read 2,315,801 times
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Don't overlook isometrics. Isometrics can be very effective at building strength and size, and they are very joint-friendly.
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Old 07-27-2016, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
7,087 posts, read 8,629,910 times
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I'm not 40, I'm 34 this year and 33 now, but I've struggled with shoulder issues (right shoulder, probably partially torn rotator cuff when I was 21, took years to heal fully, seriously about 3 years, and only last summer reached and surpassed personal records, only to injure it again). I think the biggest thing I've learned as I've matured is that I don't have to care what anyone else does or says with fitness because their opinions are irrelevant to my goals. I used to -- even up to last summer -- still include workouts that I know are bad for my body, at least, and maybe most bodies, just because they're on the list of things people do. Everyone recommends them. That doesn't make them good exercises, though, I'm sorry.

When I was younger, I did shrugs constantly, because my trainer made me do them. Shrugs are POINTLESS. Nobody, NOBODY cares if you have "big traps" or whatever, it's a weird look frankly. It's ugly. I injured myself no fewer than 10 times doing shrugs. And yet, I persisted, always assuming it was just part of working out. Finally, I hurt myself so badly one time that I had to angrily yell (I was in a ton of pain) at the college doctor at OSU, "Give me the damn meds!" and had to skip two days of classes because I was on vicodin constantly. Even with the vicodin, the pain was almost unbearable. I needed a morphine drip, but of course that wasn't going to happen. My mom had to drive down from 90 miles away because I couldn't even get out of bed to get food. It was bad. I decided forget it, if ANY exercise is this much of a problem, it doesn't belong in my routine.

I hurt my rotator cuff -- the first time -- doing pullovers. There is another exercise I eventually just threw out of the workout routine. I don't have the flexibility or shoulder stability to take 100 pound dumbbells and do proper form pullovers. They may be a great back workout, and it may build back strength, but it puts a lot of pressure on your shoulders in the process. If you don't keep PERFECT form, and I mean equal weight on each arm, if that dumbbell slips slightly to one side, which is what happened to me, you are screwed. It'll wreck your shoulder. Again, not worth it. A great exercise doesn't have that much potential for problems. There are way too many other great back exercises to care about that one.

I don't squat, either, I think -- and so did my highly educated trainer -- that heavy squats are an extremely injured prone exercise. They may be macho, which is great, but I find them awkward and annoying. I prefer leg presses and from a factual standpoint leg press is a far more effective exercise in building quad strength. It IS more isolated, after all, but if you're not doing squats you should be doing a bunch of other exercises for stabilizing leg muscles or whatnot. Light squats are fantastic, I think, and have almost no injury risk. I just don't agree with the idea of trying to do maximum weight squats. Not worth the injury risk. You need your legs and what good do leg muscles do if you tear a knee or ruin your hips?

I also personally avoid any overhead shoulder work, with my rotator cuff. That's how I hurt it the second time, very heavy overhead shoulder press on a machine. The problem there is I don't think free weight overhead shoulder presses are safe, so I've never done them regularly. Then you have another issue, though, which is that the machines are even more unsafe usually. They are all out of whack and not properly built. When you're doing shoulder presses, your arms should NEVER be at a lower angle than 90 degrees. In other words, your elbow shouldn't be lower than your shoulder at any time. There is no value in that, it's just putting pressure on your joints and not on the muscles you want to train. The problem, though, is the machines all start out ridiculously low, with no way to adjust the seat low enough to get the right angle. So you start the motion at a dangerous position and usually the handle grips are not in front of you, which they should be. They should be a few inches in front of your shoulders, not directly over them or even behind you, which creates a lot of injury potential. They're horribly designed machines in almost every case.

I wish I had never done overhead shoulder work because, again, simply not worth the injury risk. I realize now I'm over trying to "do it all," I just stick to what makes sense for me and works. If I can bench a ton of weight, I'm happy, if I can leg press a ton of weight, I'm happy, and if I can do some solid heavy back workouts that don't put the rest of my body in jeopardy, I'm happy. I have no interest in screwing around with exercises that have high injury potential. Not only do I look well balanced and strong, so I have no need for these other exercises I ditched, but they're all kind of besides the point. If you can bench heavy weight with great form, you're already using most of the muscles that you have on your upper body. All that remains is "pulling" exercises (back) and biceps, both of which can be trained easily without injury risk.
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,087 posts, read 9,832,165 times
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Mark Rippetoe of Starting Strength and all around excellent trainer in the compound basics indicates one can and should lift heavy into their 40s+.

Summary: lift heavy but reduce volume. arrived at the same conclusion intuitively some time ago before hearing him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6-GZ8Xjd4
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:13 AM
 
20,758 posts, read 8,562,401 times
Reputation: 14393
For several years I used heavier dumbbells, fewer reps. After too many bouts of elbow tendonitis and other joint injuries, I switched to endurance workouts - light weights, many reps. I actually got better results with no noticeable loss of strength.


After 40 your top priority should be to avoid and prevent injuries
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Louisiana and Pennsylvania
3,010 posts, read 6,304,441 times
Reputation: 3128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
For several years I used heavier dumbbells, fewer reps. After too many bouts of elbow tendonitis and other joint injuries, I switched to endurance workouts - light weights, many reps. I actually got better results with no noticeable loss of strength.


After 40 your top priority should be to avoid and prevent injuries

Yes for sure
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
5,353 posts, read 5,789,929 times
Reputation: 6561
I'm 50. My lifting habits have changed somewhat due to energy levels and back issues. But I got on testosterone and a natural growth hormone and am looking pretty muscular now, but could look better. With my sleep issues, I find it hard to get in the gym by 6:00 AM, which is what I should be doing at least 2 days a week. I just can't do it. I'm 6'0", 200 pounds. At 190 pounds I'd be ripped, but I have little to no motivation to get there. The good news is my body responds well to weight lifting when I'm consistent, as I've been doing it since I was 14. What I should be doing more of is yoga, but I just hate it. I plan to force myself to do it at least once a week, in addition to regular lifting 3-4 days a week. Just have to get better sleep to make it a reality.
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