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Depends, if you are trying to look good, and avoid injuries, machines are your thing.
But if you are training for a specific sport, you will need to use more free weights to train other stabilizing muscles.
Machines are more dangerous. If you get your joints in a bind on a machine like one you push on you can't adjust the angle and it will hurt you. With normal weights you have more freedom of movement and you have less of a chance of getting into binds. I have already seen 2 people break their elbow on a machine and 1 break his knee.
the companies that make machines want you to believe they are better. There is a lot more money to be made with machines and parts when they wear out. Normal weights are not as high profit. Think about this if you sell disks to a gym and they never wear out you only make a little money. If you sell machines they wear out and you make more money.
Lazy is relative. Weight machines are more efficient. They allow someone to get in an effective workout in a reasonable time. Not everybody can spend 2 hours or more per day working out. Not everybody Needs to be able to deadlift 400+ lbs.
It all depends on your goals. If your goal is to be a top athlete, then yes you will need to spend a lot more time at it. If your goal is to be Healthy, then that can be accomplished in less time. My motto is "exercise to live" not "live to exercise". I realize that's not for everybody but...
My friends ask me how to train for sport A or sport B, and then i ask them what they currently do. They show me their program and it is based around machines. I ask them why they do machines, and they say "i don't know, but trust me the trainer put me on it and it's really good".
Trainers advocate the hell out of machines. It's not more efficient because instead of doing leg curls, leg extensions, and leg press i can do squats and also work more muscles than those 3 machines combined. Instead of doing the preacher curl machine and cable row, i could do dumbbell or barbell rows. When you train correctly with free weights, you don't need 2 hours or an extravagant routine. All you really need is 30 min-1 hour in a lot of cases to get in what in my mind is a more efficient workout.
It all depends on peoples goals. If you want to get better at training with machines, then use machines, but if you are working out to gain muscle and get stronger or lose weight and get thinner, free weights are undoubtedly more efficient and more effective
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex
Depends, if you are trying to look good, and avoid injuries, machines are your thing.
But if you are training for a specific sport, you will need to use more free weights to train other stabilizing muscles.
read the quote below. That is especially true when using the smith machine for squats- i cringe anytime i see someone do that because of how unsafe it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad.roper
Machines are more dangerous. If you get your joints in a bind on a machine like one you push on you can't adjust the angle and it will hurt you. With normal weights you have more freedom of movement and you have less of a chance of getting into binds. I have already seen 2 people break their elbow on a machine and 1 break his knee.
but people think they are safer. I was showing my friend how to do military press with dumbbells. He said "what if I drop it on my head". I was trying to tell him he won't drop it on his head. Just the way the joints are made if it drops it will fall away from your head.
My friends ask me how to train for sport A or sport B, and then i ask them what they currently do. They show me their program and it is based around machines. I ask them why they do machines, and they say "i don't know, but trust me the trainer put me on it and it's really good".
If it's working, machine or not it's working. If your friends performance is improving then it's working. I'm not advocating either machines or free weights. I'm saying to do what works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRider23
Trainers advocate the hell out of machines. It's not more efficient because instead of doing leg curls, leg extensions, and leg press i can do squats and also work more muscles than those 3 machines combined. Instead of doing the preacher curl machine and cable row, i could do dumbbell or barbell rows. When you train correctly with free weights, you don't need 2 hours or an extravagant routine. All you really need is 30 min-1 hour in a lot of cases to get in what in my mind is a more efficient workout.
All I need is a 30 min - 1 hour workout with either machines OR free weights OR better yet a combo of the two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRider23
It all depends on peoples goals. If you want to get better at training with machines, then use machines, but if you are working out to gain muscle and get stronger or lose weight and get thinner, free weights are undoubtedly more efficient and more effective
I have gained strength using machines. They both work. You're right about goals. But turn your statement around. If you want to get better at pushing a bar around, then push a bar around. If you want to get stronger at something else, then use progressive resistance on something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRider23
read the quote below. That is especially true when using the smith machine for squats- i cringe anytime i see someone do that because of how unsafe it is.
Injuries are a risk in any activity. That's why proper technique are important in any sport or exercise. That's also why not overdoing it is important as well. You wouldn't have a link to statistics on injuries of machines vs. free weights?
Final comment. Look, I'm not in your league physically (assuming). I know it. But I'm not trying to be. IF I ever get to the point where I can get there I realize free weights will play a larger role in the workout. I am not even close right now. Neither are a lot of the people you see in the gym.
My post was in answer to someone who appears to be belittling the "average" person who IS trying. That offends me! Believe it or not we need more people to exercise.
That is especially true when using the smith machine for squats- i cringe anytime i see someone do that because of how unsafe it is.
That whole "smith machines are unsafe" is a bunch of baloney that is talked about by the "I have to show how macho I am" bunch. Ive talked to Gov. Scwartchenegger, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman about this. They all said that it was a bunch of baloney. Smith Machines are fine, regular free weights are better, but there is nothing wrong with smith machines. I'll believe these guys over the postings of internet yahoos any day.
If it's working, machine or not it's working. If your friends performance is improving then it's working. I'm not advocating either machines or free weights. I'm saying to do what works.
the thing is a few people asked me about it because they didn't see improved strength or performance. I agree that one should do what works.
All I need is a 30 min - 1 hour workout with either machines OR free weights OR better yet a combo of the two.
I have gained strength using machines. They both work. You're right about goals. But turn your statement around. If you want to get better at pushing a bar around, then push a bar around. If you want to get stronger at something else, then use progressive resistance on something else.
you can gain strength by using machines or even doing pushups. The question is what is most efficient, and it is proven that free weights stimulate more muscle groups, thus making it more efficient.
Injuries are a risk in any activity. That's why proper technique are important in any sport or exercise. That's also why not overdoing it is important as well. You wouldn't have a link to statistics on injuries of machines vs. free weights?
i wouldn't happen to have a link to statistics, but i've seen people get hurt by using machines. Hell, someone i know got hurt yesterday.
Final comment. Look, I'm not in your league physically (assuming). I know it. But I'm not trying to be. IF I ever get to the point where I can get there I realize free weights will play a larger role in the workout. I am not even close right now. Neither are a lot of the people you see in the gym.
I understand where you're coming from and respect your points and your goals for working out. The thing that bugs me is when my friends come to me for advice, and then disregard it and say that the trainer is certified so they are going to listen to him.
My post was in answer to someone who appears to be belittling the "average" person who IS trying. That offends me! Believe it or not we need more people to exercise.
Sorry....... didn't realize that your post was directed towards him. I think my points are still valid for your average person trying to get stronger though
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoTzuMindFu
That whole "smith machines are unsafe" is a bunch of baloney that is talked about by the "I have to show how macho I am" bunch. Ive talked to Gov. Scwartchenegger, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman about this. They all said that it was a bunch of baloney. Smith Machines are fine, regular free weights are better, but there is nothing wrong with smith machines. I'll believe these guys over the postings of internet yahoos any day.
Wow- i find it hard to believe that guys like them can advocate the smith machine, and if they do think this then i bet they have some dam good reasons, but i will say mine anyway. Also, out of curiosity how did you speak to them personally? Sorry, but i find it hard to believe that you spoke to arnold and everyone else you named.
Anyways, here is what i think
When you do a squat, you're not supposed to be restricted in your range of motion with heavy weights. The bar isn't supposed to stay in one plane of motion on your way down. Also, the smith machine has one squat vertical, which gets rid of most of the involvement of the spinal erectors and hammies. Since it decreases the hamstrings involvement, the load isn't trasnferred accordingly and more stress is placed on the knee joint.
Wow- i find it hard to believe that guys like them can advocate the smith machine, and if they do think this then i bet they have some dam good reasons, but i will say mine anyway. Also, out of curiosity how did you speak to them personally? Sorry, but i find it hard to believe that you spoke to arnold and everyone else you named.
Anyways, here is what i think
When you do a squat, you're not supposed to be restricted in your range of motion with heavy weights. The bar isn't supposed to stay in one plane of motion on your way down. Also, the smith machine has one squat vertical, which gets rid of most of the involvement of the spinal erectors and hammies. Since it decreases the hamstrings involvement, the load isn't trasnferred accordingly and more stress is placed on the knee joint.
The machines also make it where you don't use the transverse abdominals. No one cares about having strong transverse abdominals because you can't see them they are under the rectus abdominals and oblique abdominals but they are what helps support your back and your guts. It is better to have good transverse abdominals than to just have 6 pack because its popular.
Wow- i find it hard to believe that guys like them can advocate the smith machine, and if they do think this then i bet they have some dam good reasons, but i will say mine anyway. Also, out of curiosity how did you speak to them personally? Sorry, but i find it hard to believe that you spoke to arnold and everyone else you named.
I do bodyguarding/security for a lot of people/events here in LA/Hollywood and also some fights in Vegas so I get to meet a lot of people. I also worked for the Gov. when he was campaigning to be gov of California. That and the fact that these guys are in my social circles make it bit easier to come across them.
I used to hear all the time from guys who mistakenly thought they knew what they were talking about saying "smith machines are bad", "Smith machines are dangerous" and all they were doing was repeating what they heard instead of something they researched on their own. I wanted smith machine for my home and wanted to make sure that it was safe. Since I had no plans of putting up 550-600 pounds on it and the fact that these guys said they use(d) it convinced me. I ended up getting one of these - Parabody Smith Machine and am very very happy with it. Has gun rack so I can use both the smith AND regular olympic bar.
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