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What is normal? Is it only the way you define it, or does my definition count too?
And what does your being a vegetarian have to do with the thread?
The Israelis are trying to find out what is normal and what is too thin. Ask them.
I would say that when a girl or woman eats normally, is not a couch potato, has no diseases (thyroid etc.), then whatever her weight and figure turns out to be is normal.
You were saying something about my diet if I remember correctly.
It's not really two different things. As I wrote pages ago, most fashion is made by homosexual designers, they do transfer their image of women to models. If they didn't think thin models are beautiful, why would they hire them? Many of them have twisted ideas of beauty as is also evident from many fashion and other items themselves.
That's just what is happening. The basketball player analogy makes no sense as people know they can't really control their height. But with weight that is not the case. Many girls find themselves fat because of their distorted image of themselves, which in turn is based on what they see around them. Thus they think they are eating too much, even if that is absolutely not the case.
Just because they may not have found the ideal line yet, doesn't mean that there is none and there shouldn't be one. The current situation is there because there was no regulation in the past. It has gotten out of control because of sicko designers.
Have to go to bed, good night
High fashion really isn't about beauty, at least not in a typical, widely appealing sense. It's about art and intrigue. It is not about representing women as the way they're supposed to be or in a way to make them more appealing to men. It is only about showing their work however they wish to show it. Getting angry at designers for primarily using skinny women is like getting angry at artists for primarily using oil paints.
There are always going to be people who look differently than we do. I'm sorry if some people can't handle that fact and try to harm themselves to look a certain way but you can't punish others to make those sad people feel better about themselves. And I don't know about the statistics in your country, but in America less than 1% of the population suffers from an eating disorder and over 60% of the population is overweight or obese. Clearly, these "sicko" designers are not have the impact you seem to think they are.
There is no ideal line because every person is different. This is about punishing thin people to make not so thin people feel better about themselves. If this were about promoting self esteem and self love, the regulations would be more along the lines of requiring a certain number of models of a variety of sizes in each show. Drawing an arbitrary line isn't helping anyone, it's just hurting.
The Israelis are trying to find out what is normal and what is too thin. Ask them.
I would say that when a girl or woman eats normally, is not a couch potato, has no diseases (thyroid etc.), then whatever her weight and figure turns out to be is normal.
You were saying something about my diet if I remember correctly.
Whoops, I accidentally repped you when I just wanted to quote.
"The Israelis" are not on this thread posting about "normal" women but you are.
No One person's body is "normal." We come in so many shapes and sizes that to even claim someone particular is "normal" is offensive. Case in point would be people who are born with a bad limb. Are you not normal is you cannot walk unaided? Yes, yes you are. You are deciding that your own judgments on the issue rule all, and you are completely wrong.
Next, I never said anything about your diet. You certainly misconstrued, if only because vegetarians always want to thrust that nugget of info into the conversation. If for some reason you thought I was actually sitting here thinking about what you personally eat, I assure you, you are wrong. Never in my life have I considered what "Neuling" eats.
But the point is if your bones are not narrow enough for regular fashion you can go plus size. Most plus size models are around a size 8-14.
And you still don't see the problem there?!
Plus sized women sould be plus sized models. Women who are NOT plus sized shouldn't be considered plus sized for modeling purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opsimathia
Maybe you guys were ignoring all the toxic chemicals in P&G products that cause cancer. If they really cared about affecting the consumer negatively they would change that more so than marketed images. They won't change that though until they find a way to profit from it. See above for the reason why.
I am fully aware of the pinkwashing that those huge companies do, and the bad chemicals they use.
That's why I use a mix of Lush products (can't accuse them of having models that are too skinny, lol!) and homemade beauty routines. (aka, milk and honey face care, coconut oil, avacados, etc...)
They very well might be, but even in the "real photo", there are a few of them that are in fact too skinny and have major issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngletNYC
And come on, this is about some overweight and obese people being personally offended. Women who aren't overweight+ (yet aren't slender) don't care.
YES, we do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
I totally disagree. It is many normal girls and women who, after years of media bombardment, THINK they are overweight, but aren't. And it is worried parents of teenage kids, especially of girls.
Yup!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyTXsmile
If you think that's what the issue is, overweight people being unhappy with model sizes, and not models who are jepordaizing their own health to meet industry standards for their profession, you are misguided.
Let us tell all athletes to use steroids since it benefits their career. We can highly medicate surgeons so they never sleep so they can save more lives. We can allow truck drivers to take shift after shift after shift, because, after all, they can avoid accidents without adequate breaks. Shall I keep going?
A lot of industries have a possible work hazard. It is in the best interest of the industry to do what it can to ensure a safe and productive environment, as well as be conscious of how their decisions will affect others outside the industry. This is an industry that TOLD models to get thinner, even though they were already thin. Now they're trying to undo that wrong. What's so wrong with that? Wait. That last sentence shouldn't end with a "?" because I honestly don't care what anyone's response is, as I'm done with this "discussion." It's just going in circles.
You keep supporting eating disorders, and I'll keep supporting happy healthy people.
Amen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngletNYC
If you are claiming you've been sitting around wringing your hands over the health of models for all of these years, i am claiming that you are a liar. We both know that you aren't worried that the latest cover girl isnt eating enough. And you don't watch football and cry over athletes being on drugs. Nor are you out campaining about truck drivers doing drugs to work more. Please, you arent fooling anyone. You are feigning outrage over these things.to justify your low self esteem when you see skinny models.
You know what I feel when I see a good majority of models today? Pity. Pity that they have had to starve themselves to keep their jobs. (Some not all) I know all too well how women are treated in any sort of industry based on looks and it is sick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnexpectedError
So the message you want to send to kids is...it's bad to be thin? If you're thin then there must be something wrong with you and you should eat more?
No! That it's wrong to starve yourself to fit into some twisted standard of someone elses's idea of beauty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
I am a male vegetarian and I have a normal figure.
I am not a male nor a veggie (although I do grow and eat veggies!), and I have a normal figure as well. I have a body fat % of right at 20% (hubby swears I am split in thirds. One third in my T, and one third in my A and the rest everywhere else, lol!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnexpectedError
Why would a girl who is not naturally thin strive to be so? Are you concerned that a girl who is not naturally athletic would strive to be a bodybuilder or a boy who is quite short would strive to be a basketball player? We are born as we are and there will always be doors that are closed to us because our physical forms don't meet those standards. You should not punish those who happen to fit a certain physical standard just because others cannot be like them.
Spud Webb is all I'm sayin'.
Honestly why would a girl that can never be Twiggy try to anyway? You're joking right? Do you really not understand that? (If you don't, I will be back later and I can try to explain it)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngletNYC
My point isn't absurd. You are claiming that your only concern for this issue relates towards the health of the models. I claim that you aren't telling the truth. I don't think you flip through Vogue and cry for those poor women who are forced to be thin thanks to the evil media. I think you flip through Vogue and feel bad about yourself, for one reason and another. The world should not spring into action simply because you feel bad.
Again, I see the majority of those girls and feel pity.
Wow, that was a lot of scattered replies at once so I'll just address what I can. In modeling, plus size starts at size 10 or 12 and most of the plus sized models I'm familiar with are size 12 or 14. It is plus sized because it is larger than "straight" modeling, which is size 0, 2, or 4. They aren't necessarily fat or overweight or unhealthy, they're just plus compared to the standard.
No one is saying you have to look like a model to be beautiful. Nor do you necessarily have to harm your body to be thin. Most models are not naturally thick ladies who starved themselves down to size. They are naturally thin who watch what they eat in order to stay naturally thin.
I, like you, have a normal figure. That normal figure happens to be 6'0 and a size 2 but it's still normal. If a designer or photographers sees me and thinks my figure is beautiful, great. If a person on the street sees me and decides I'm too thin, tough snit for them. If a young girl sees me and decides to starve herself to try and look like me, that's very sad but I'm not to blame. You can't punish the thin woman because you don't like the way some people react to her.
OngletNYC, in response to all your posts directed to me (as well as the unnecessarily angry posts directed at others):
I hate to break it to you, sweetie, but you can twist my words all you want. And you can put down others (that you don't even know) all you want. It doesn't change the fact that:
#1: You don't know what you're talking about.
#2: You clearly have a complex, and you're lashing that out onto people that threaten you.
#3: Your sad attempt to bait me into an argument isn't going to work.
You'll have to attempt your petty games with someone else (or, if you're wise, grow up and have a conversation like a kind, civil adult). Either way, I have nothing more to say to someone that trolls the boards spewing anger.
I welcome friendly debate and open discussion, but that can only happen when all parties play nicely, and aren't twisting words. All twisting words does is avoid the point, which clearly you want to do since you obviously realize you don't have a platform to stand on. Even if you managed to stay on point, I quickly weed out those that haven't yet grasped the art of speaking nicely. I have no room in my life for those without manners. Sorry.
Last edited by SunnyTXsmile; 03-23-2012 at 07:52 PM..
High fashion really isn't about beauty, at least not in a typical, widely appealing sense. It's about art and intrigue. It is not about representing women as the way they're supposed to be or in a way to make them more appealing to men. It is only about showing their work however they wish to show it. Getting angry at designers for primarily using skinny women is like getting angry at artists for primarily using oil paints.
There are always going to be people who look differently than we do. I'm sorry if some people can't handle that fact and try to harm themselves to look a certain way but you can't punish others to make those sad people feel better about themselves. And I don't know about the statistics in your country, but in America less than 1% of the population suffers from an eating disorder and over 60% of the population is overweight or obese. Clearly, these "sicko" designers are not have the impact you seem to think they are.
There is no ideal line because every person is different. This is about punishing thin people to make not so thin people feel better about themselves. If this were about promoting self esteem and self love, the regulations would be more along the lines of requiring a certain number of models of a variety of sizes in each show. Drawing an arbitrary line isn't helping anyone, it's just hurting.
It's not about "punishing" thin people but changing the perception of society what desirable standard of beauty is. ( And if you consider that falling off that pedestal would be a punishment for ( naturally) thin people, then yes, may be punishment it is, or better say falling out of luck.)
However I don't see it happening soon because we still live not only in the age of runways, but in the age of photography and art of photography definitely requires slender lines and longer limbs. No one can help it - it's not painting, otherwise rubenesque women would still do. ( They too probably used to be a symbol of beauty once.)
It's not about "punishing" thin people but changing the perception of society what desirable standard of beauty is. ( And if you consider that falling off that pedestal would be a punishment for ( naturally) thin people, then yes, may be punishment it is, or better say falling out of luck.)
However I don't see it happening soon because we still live not only in the age of runways, but in the age of photography and art of photography definitely requires slender lines and longer limbs. No one can help it - it's not painting, otherwise rubenesque women would still do. ( They too probably used to be a symbol of beauty once.)
But it is, it's about making thin women "feel bad" because they're somehow to blame for others insecurities. It's about telling thin women they're not "real women" or that they're "disgusting" or accusing thin women of having eating disorders just because they're thin.
Rubenesque women were once a symbol of physical beauty, back in a time when being heavyset=well fed=wealthy/royalty.
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