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Old 01-13-2014, 10:05 AM
 
4,565 posts, read 4,277,425 times
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I once saw a special on TV or former gang member that turned their lives around, the girl was absolutely beautiful, but when she did the beoifre interview scene without make, she has MS -13 tatoos on her entire forhead, and atleast 1-2 another on her cheeks.

What it someone dated this lady and fell in love, only to go swimming and have her come out the pool with MS-13 tatoos all over her face or spend the night and wonder who this lady is with gang symbols covering her face the next morning out the shower.

I tell all young adults, make sure washes her face before you propose to her lol.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,116 posts, read 27,191,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs4 fan View Post
But that is my point: since society tells women to act/dress a certain way, women have the CHOICE (as per feminism) to tell everyone to F off. What I can't understand is the constant complaining of how "women are pressured to look beautiful." Society doesn't MAKE women do that...they have free will. For the women who don't like it, don't do it. Don't submit to the "pressure." It's really that simple.




Your old boss sounds like a POS. They're not all like that.




No offense JJ, but this entire post sounds like it's contradicting women empowerment. Now, I understand that women have the choice to go by society's rules to get ahead. However, when women are pandering to the likes of men, that empowerment becomes null and void. You've chosen to "submit" to them.
Not all women are empowered.

I'd love to say 'screw it!' and do what I want, but the reality is that I need a job and I'm working on a career so there are things I need to do to stay competitive. I don't like wearing makeup and I was lucky enough to be hired at my current job via a phone interview. I'm very charismatic in person, but it's amazing how quickly a company rep can go from 'super excited' when on the phone/emailing to shear disappointment when they meet you in person. I have no doubts whatsoever that I've lost positions because of the way I look, and was even told to my face that I lost a promotion because 'the other candidate would be easier to look at'.

I know not all bosses are like that...but a good portion of them are. And it's not pandering to the whims of men, it's trying to earn a living and advance. Things are slowly changing, but it's taking time.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:58 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
81,017 posts, read 74,119,183 times
Reputation: 80694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
When I was in high school in the 80s the girls wore a lot of makeup. They wanted to look grown up.Today's teen girls seem to wear less makeup than any generation in living memory. They look like kids, they don't aspire to look older like the girls of my generation did.
By the time they got to university, though, they'd stopped wearing makeup. Most of the university women in the 80's, at least those in the Pacific NW and Bay Area, didn't wear makeup, and did look like kids. Looking older wasn't on anyone's mind. Going to classes and enjoying their freedom, this first step into adulthood, was.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
81,017 posts, read 74,119,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
Actually, Feminism promotes the ability of women to do what they want...whether that's to wear a full face of makeup or never wear any at all. We should be able to choose for ourselves and not be judged either way, but unfortunately society sees it differently.

I've mentioned a few times on here that I was given a bit of a lecture by an old boss who said it didn't look like I took my job seriously because I didn't wear makeup or do my hair for work. Apparently this was very important being the only woman in the department. I never came to work messy, I just put my brushed hair back into a bun or ponytail and put moisturizer on my face, but that simply wasn't enough.

Women ARE judged primarily on looks first and foremost, and looks are FAR more important in women than in men. Our studiousness, our intelligence and even our work ethic is tied to the way we present ourselves and the way we look. Some of us aren't naturally attractive and this does hinder us in ways that most men simply cannot comprehend because they have zero experience with it. Makeup gives us that little bit of oomph we need to succeed, which is sad but true.
JJ is right, especially in any work relating to the corporate world. I worked in an academic environment for many years, which (thankfully) doesn't have strict rules like this. But my cousin, who ran her own home-based business, had to wear makeup when she met with corporate clients. (It was the only time in her life she'd ever worn makeup.) The corporate world is pretty strict about this. Makeup is a required part of the business "uniform". Wearing the "power suit" isn't enough to get you taken seriously.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:25 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,279 posts, read 4,042,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
I've mentioned a few times on here that I was given a bit of a lecture by an old boss who said it didn't look like I took my job seriously because I didn't wear makeup or do my hair for work. Apparently this was very important being the only woman in the department. I never came to work messy, I just put my brushed hair back into a bun or ponytail and put moisturizer on my face, but that simply wasn't enough.

Women ARE judged primarily on looks first and foremost, and looks are FAR more important in women than in men. Our studiousness, our intelligence and even our work ethic is tied to the way we present ourselves and the way we look. Some of us aren't naturally attractive and this does hinder us in ways that most men simply cannot comprehend because they have zero experience with it. Makeup gives us that little bit of oomph we need to succeed, which is sad but true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
100% agreed.

Not looking "attractive" seriously hampers women in the workforce. In all jobs, not just appearance related ones.
THIS. I'm an engineer, work in a heavily male dominated environment, and I've noticed that wearing a bit of makeup means I am taken more seriously and viewed as more professional and competent. Like it or not, it's another tool that enables me to do my job as effectively as possible.

Feminism is about choices, and frankly, I don't see the act of wearing makeup as "selling out to the patriarchy." I don't see it as much different than men/women cutting or styling their hair, or men grooming their facial hair.

Something that always puzzles me about the dreaded "why do women wear makeup?" threads -- a number of posters refer to women who slather their makeup on like clowns, or have cake-looking faces. I've hardly ever see a woman wearing makeup who had a crackled/caked-on look - only exception would be sometimes I see a heavily wrinkled, older woman, and the foundation/powder collects in the wrinkles. I also occasionally see a woman wearing pretty heavy makeup but it's pretty seldom. If I had to guess, I'd say less than 10% of the women I see are wearing what I could call heavy/unnatural/clown-like makeup. Usually they're pretty young, and I figure they're experimenting and finding themselves.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:27 PM
 
Location: NYC
14,265 posts, read 9,530,724 times
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:53 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,598 posts, read 22,428,267 times
Reputation: 24449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeemama View Post
As long as your daughter doesn't wear makeup that makes her look trampy then learning how to properly wear makeup in high school is a good thing, IMO.
Yes! I wish someone would have shown me the ropes because I never really learned how to do it. When I try to put on eyeshadow, blush, liner, bronzer, whatever, I just feel that it looks wrong and stupid and i just wash it off. At this point I doubt I'll ever know how to do it right - but I am awed by those who know how to do it well, like that second before and after lady with the flowing red hair. I wish I could learn her techniques and look like a goddess.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:11 PM
 
3,939 posts, read 3,997,220 times
Reputation: 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Yes! I wish someone would have shown me the ropes because I never really learned how to do it. When I try to put on eyeshadow, blush, liner, bronzer, whatever, I just feel that it looks wrong and stupid and i just wash it off. At this point I doubt I'll ever know how to do it right - but I am awed by those who know how to do it well, like that second before and after lady with the flowing red hair. I wish I could learn her techniques and look like a goddess.
My advice is go to Nordstrom or Macy's... Bloomingdales and look at the women behind the counter. Find someone whose makeup you like and ask that person to do your makeup. Bobbi Brown tends to be the "pretty and natural brand" IMO but Laura Mercier has a natural look and MAC make up artists, though usually very made up, can give you a natural makeup look. I wore MAC, Nars, Clinique, Stila in my 20's and 30's but now in mid 40's and my skin has changed. Bobbi Brown, Chanel, Laura Mercier, Lancôme, Estée Lauder, Shisedo, Clarins seem better suited to mature skin. It's never too late to learn. Ask for a look that emphasizes your eyes, naturally, by learning to place your eyeliner as close to the upper lash line as possible, curling your lashes and properly using mascara. Learn where to place concealer and apply a natural blush. Those things are game changers, especially for women who are over 35. It is empowering for women to look our best. Good luck.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Queens, NY
842 posts, read 946,319 times
Reputation: 1012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
Not all women are empowered.

I'd love to say 'screw it!' and do what I want, but the reality is that I need a job and I'm working on a career so there are things I need to do to stay competitive. I don't like wearing makeup and I was lucky enough to be hired at my current job via a phone interview. I'm very charismatic in person, but it's amazing how quickly a company rep can go from 'super excited' when on the phone/emailing to shear disappointment when they meet you in person. I have no doubts whatsoever that I've lost positions because of the way I look, and was even told to my face that I lost a promotion because 'the other candidate would be easier to look at'.

I know not all bosses are like that...but a good portion of them are. And it's not pandering to the whims of men, it's trying to earn a living and advance. Things are slowly changing, but it's taking time.
But that is pandering to the whims of men. Since you don't like wearing makeup, you have a choice not to regardless of career advancement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wry_Martini View Post
THIS. I'm an engineer, work in a heavily male dominated environment, and I've noticed that wearing a bit of makeup means I am taken more seriously and viewed as more professional and competent. Like it or not, it's another tool that enables me to do my job as effectively as possible.

Feminism is about choices, and frankly, I don't see the act of wearing makeup as "selling out to the patriarchy." I don't see it as much different than men/women cutting or styling their hair, or men grooming their facial hair.
Sadly, for those who don't enjoy wearing makeup, that is pandering to the patriarchy. If that's what it takes for someone to take you seriously, why don't we men wear makeup? Your work ethic/intelligence should show your competency, not some chemicals on your face.

When women complain that "we have to bow down to society's standards of beauty because of pressure", they generally are selling out IMO. Women being "pressured" to look beautiful is a HUGE issue in the Western world. It's a common complaint, even on this very forum. No one HAS to follow it, though. It's similar to someone complaining about Wal-Mart's unscrupulous business practices, but then going there because it's convenient to their shopping needs.

Like I've said earlier, since women have the choice, they can choose not to do it if they didn't like it. Ironically, I'm sure these same women would disapprove of the thought of having men control their relationships. I say, read the Candace Cameron thread (and the comments on the link to it) on the Relationships forum and see how many women called her "weak" and "stupid" for willingly submitting to her man. Pot, meet kettle.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,598 posts, read 22,428,267 times
Reputation: 24449
WTF with Snooky - kill it with fire!
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