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Here is why it was brought up: nobody ever complains about super thin. Nobody starts threads making fun of super thin. Nobody discusses in earnest the health ramifications of being too thin. This cannot be said of bigger girls, though. They are fair game to make fun of, be the subject of numerous (and sometimes idiotic) health debates, be the punchline of a joke ("no fat chicks"), and on it goes.
It's almost like people are offended at the sight of overweight women. Then when these women start support groups for each other they are excoriated and ridiculed for their "fat acceptance" campaign. But you certainly don't see any of this pertaining to super thin women. Just because nobody has outright said on this thread that being super thin is okay doesn't change the fact that society carries a real and damaging double standard on this issue. And a lot of people are willfully blind to it.
Probably because the rate of fat/obese people are increasing at epidemic numbers that super thin people are becoming a minority so hardly anyone ever complains about the thin. There is an obesity epidemic, not an anorexic one, so that's probably why super thin people get a pass.
Could a plus size princess make good for societys view of beauty? Could it turn numbers lower what comes to kids which are suffering eating disorders because they think they are fat?
No fat princess or prince for that matter. Kids need to learn at a young age to be a normal weight, not thin or muscular, but average size. Fit would be better but average at the very least.
But it seems to me that overweight people like others to join them, so they like to complain about how society is superficial and people should accept others and don't pressure anyone to lose weight blah blah blah blah.
Let me tell you I have a high blood sugar level and if wasn't for the fact I workout on a regular basis I would definitely be needing medications. Fortunately it's not that high and on my next scheduled test my numbers should have dropped because of my change of diet and a loss of some weight. I don't want to be one of those overweight/obese people popping pills all the time because a lack of self-control.
I have no intention of doing a research project and posting links on this.
Or is it you have no "ability" to. Or maybe it's no "desire" to because you fear the possibility that it will expose the fragility of your position.
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
neither do you since you haven't provided any "facts" that you keep insisting on.
I invite you to review my posts and then look up the difference between "normative" and "positive" statements. They're generally used as economics terms, but they apply toward the style of arguments you and I have made on this thread. I'm making a normative argument. You're making positive arguments and if you are going to make positive arguments you'd better be prepared to back them with facts. You are either unable or unwilling to do, which completely calls into question your credibility.
And for the record, a poster making a positive argument alongside my stance has already posted a lot of good information that undermines your position. You may not like them, but 1) you're not the standard bearer in medical science and 2) it's a lot better than you have done.
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
I know you want to be overweight and pretend you are really more like "average" and "healthy."
This is not about me. It never was. Not for one sentence on one post was this ever about me. This statement is a complete non-starter.
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
you want to believe models are underweight and unhealthy.
A lot of them are. Many posters have shared links voicing evidence of such. If you had taken the time to click on one of them and read, you may have abandoned your believe that all models who grace the photoshopped pages of the VS catalogues are healthy.
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
it helps keep you from having to exercise self control in your diet and helps keep you from needing to exercise. so keep believing it.
What's funny about this statement is I am probably in better physical condition than you are. By a long shot.
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
but if you read what I said, you would know that it made perfect sense.
I have read what you said and I completely respect your opinion. I know I am not likely changing anyone's mind. But I will challenge you to support your opinion with fact. If you are unable to do this, you really have no basis for your opinion, save your own bias.
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
those anorexic pictures you see that everyone finds shocking, that isn't what models look like and you know it.
No, they don't look like in real life what they look like in those pictures. That's because the editors photoshop the pictures! This has been stated several times and is a well-known fact about the fashion industry and advertising in general.
No, they don't look like in real life what they look like in those pictures. That's because the editors photoshop the pictures! This has been stated several times and is a well-known fact about the fashion industry and advertising in general.
now you are suggesting that photo editors make the models look fatter in the pictures? I thought it was supposed to be the other way around.
I like how you have taken away any obligations you may have to post facts while reaffirming my obligation to post facts. that's very cute. so you can demand facts and proof for my opinions, while your opinions require none of the sort. that isn't at all one sided.
which of my opinions would you like me to support with facts?
now you are suggesting that photo editors make the models look fatter in the pictures? I thought it was supposed to be the other way around.
I made it clear I was talking about thin models, many of whom look healthier in their photoshopped pictures than in real life.
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
I like how you have taken away any obligations you may have to post facts while reaffirming my obligation to post facts. that's very cute. so you can demand facts and proof for my opinions, while your opinions require none of the sort. that isn't at all one sided.
Once again, I invite you to fire up google and look up the difference between a normative and positive argument.
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
which of my opinions would you like me to support with facts?
For starters you can share with the class what metrics you are considering when you made this statement:
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
but the notion that models are "anorexics" is a false premise as the vast majority of models we see aren't anorexic. they are at the healthy ideal weights. what people see as "skinny" is not really skinny, its where they should be. where people say is "average" or "healthy" they are thinking of a slightly overweight person.
We'll see how you handle that relatively easy question and go from there.
No fat princess or prince for that matter. Kids need to learn at a young age to be a normal weight, not thin or muscular, but average size. Fit would be better but average at the very least.
But it seems to me that overweight people like others to join them, so they like to complain about how society is superficial and people should accept others and don't pressure anyone to lose weight blah blah blah blah.
Let me tell you I have a high blood sugar level and if wasn't for the fact I workout on a regular basis I would definitely be needing medications. Fortunately it's not that high and on my next scheduled test my numbers should have dropped because of my change of diet and a loss of some weight. I don't want to be one of those overweight/obese people popping pills all the time because a lack of self-control.
LOL, again, no, I don't want anyone to come over to the dark side, I mean fat side. I so want and hope all children would be able to maintain a healthy weight whatever that may be for the individual child. I agree there is an obesity epidemic, not just in the US either. But that's a whole other ball of grains to deal with.
And for the record, I maintain a healthy diet and take no medication for diabetes or blood pressure, I get a clear bill of health as far as my numbers are concerned including including my cholesterol numbers which all get checked regularly.. I once did have a brief period where my blood pressure registered too high and I made sure to get back on track eating properly. And sure I could list a thousand reasons for why I'm over weight, but I assure you it isn't for not trying to lose weight. I am the last person to ever want to go out and promote obesity, but I also won't accept mistreatment of people that others deem as unacceptable or entitled to happiness or representation in society.
Everyone can believe what they wish, but the truth of the matter for many a young person who started out as average or even below average weight, the pressures to conform to some impossible standards of beauty were catalyst for their eating disorders. The yoyoing caused many to mess up their metabolic rates making it that much more difficult to maintain a healthy weight when they finally do get off that merry-go-round.
Opinions are fine, but when people just pull things out of the cracks and haven't any idea what their talking about, well.
Now as far as anyone saying the models are anorexic, not sure who is saying that or that they are ALL unhealthy, but if you really wanted to know the facts of how they keep and maintain the weight which they are to be considered at the top of their game, which many of the top models themselves have often reported, doesn't take much to find out. For the most part, many models tend to not eat a healthy diet, but no matter, we want to believe that all swimsuit models and the Vitoria Secret model were farm raised that way and none faint back stage after the shows and shoots from dehydration due to starvation and not drinking fluids to maintain a flat belly.
Women and girls should be ok to be represented in various sizes and I do agree, we shouldn't push the image that obesity as something to aspire to, but we shouldn't hide those that have to deal with those bodies in the dark either, you can have a big girl in print that is living and promoting a healthy way of eating, there really are some people prone to being a bit bigger than average without over eating you know.
Probably because the rate of fat/obese people are increasing at epidemic numbers that super thin people are becoming a minority so hardly anyone ever complains about the thin. There is an obesity epidemic, not an anorexic one, so that's probably why super thin people get a pass.
Yeah but most people commenting on the obesity epidemic, aren't doing so because they care for the health and well-being of larger people. They want to be self-righteous and attack any attempts heavy people make at gaining self-esteem. Many overweight people suffer from low self-esteem...."tough love" and ridiculing them like it's for their own good rarely works. If it did, we wouldn' have such an overweight nation.
Plenty of young women (particularly middle and upper middle class) suffer from being too thin. Our culture glamorizes thin, so we see them as "normal."
the overweight people seem to get really bothered when you suggest models aren't too skinny. post up some heights and weights of popular models and we can calculate bmi to see where they stand. they are probably on the low end of the ideal range. but fat people don't want to believe that, they want to believe that models are unnaturally skinny.
no, the problem is that most people are unnaturally fat.
To emphasize how underweight these models really are, how their bodies are not actually so perfect, look further. Some doctors even consider a BMI under 17.5 as automatically anorexic (or with a severe health deficiency).
Sweden's issue is based at the 1,700-bed Stockholm Center for Eating Disorders, the largest clinic of its kind in the country. Agents have been known to stand outside the clinic and approach teenage patients, offering the sometimes horrifically ill girls work as models because of their small size.
I disagree about models not being anorexic. If you notice some models when they retire tend to gain weight. Some even come out saying they went to unhealthy measures or saw girls in the industry who do. Very few people can be healthy at a bmi that is underweight which if you google these models many runway ones have a bmi that is underweight.
Again there are always exceptions where someone has an under or over weight bmi and are healthy but as a whole this is not true.
I know for young girls especially it is hard to not compare to others but people should try to focus on their needs and that everyone is different. Also if people focused on themselves instead of judging others by weight or appearance or stating what that person should do.
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