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I think Disney needs to go back to making their animated women look more like Ichabod Crane's Katrina. She was hot.
Isn't the origin of this discussion to emphasize the kind of representation that's healthy and attainable for young girls as opposed to what a middle aged guy thinks is hot?
Everyone can't or shouldn't want be a princess. There are plenty of other characters which are much cooler than princess. What a silly aspiration.
But it's important to little kids for at least a portion of their young lives. It may seem silly to an adult but a child doesn't know any better.
I also don't think a plus sized princess "encourages obesity" as so many people alledge. Kids are smart enough to mimic the traits they admire and bypass those they do not. I think (and have stated so already on this thread) that a chubby Disney princess could go a long way toward affecting cultural biases about overweight people. Disney princesses are usually smart, courageous and decisive. If the company portrayed a chubby lead character with these traits it would fly in the face of the often innaccurate stereotype that fat people are lazy, lack self control, make excuses, etc. And I think that would be a very positive message to send.
Here is why it was brought up: nobody ever complains about super thin. Nobody starts threads making fun of super thin. Nobody discusses in earnest the health ramifications of being too thin. This cannot be said of bigger girls, though. They are fair game to make fun of, be the subject of numerous (and sometimes idiotic) health debates, be the punchline of a joke ("no fat chicks"), and on it goes.
It's almost like people are offended at the sight of overweight women. Then when these women start support groups for each other they are excoriated and ridiculed for their "fat acceptance" campaign. But you certainly don't see any of this pertaining to super thin women. Just because nobody has outright said on this thread that being super thin is okay doesn't change the fact that society carries a real and damaging double standard on this issue. And a lot of people are willfully blind to it.
Yup, 100% agreed. Couldn't rep you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith2187
People talk about super thin women all the time. They are told they need to eat, that they aren't real woman, that they have the body of boys, that they aren't sexy or desirable to men in the way curvy women are etc. don't act as if super thin women are excluded from being made fun of. There are plenty of threads where it has been alluded that beyond gay Hollywood men that promote these women as models, that they are not attractive or "real".
Both extremes-being very overweight and being very thin are seen in a negative light but the way in which they are talked about differs. People do seem to hate fat people a bit more than thin people but don't get it twisted--there are plenty of super thin girls I have talked to that have been put through h*ll by bigger girls or people in general who told them they are not sexy enough or need to eat.
The one groups that don't seem to be talked about enough or promoted in the spotlight are the "average" sized woman or woman that are bigger than average but not plus sized.... This group ov women are completely ignored. It's always about either the thin woman or curvy plus size woman, or fat women. People forget that there are woman
that are not fat, or thin, that do exist.... It shouldn't be about one extreme or the other extreme. Because IMO neither extreme appears healthy or attractive-but to each their own. These days every group wants a platform to validate themselves and to promote their agenda.
I don't think this happens that often compared to the converse. But there is absolutely isn't the same sort of stigma attached to being too thin, as there is to being "too fat."
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
the overweight people seem to get really bothered when you suggest models aren't too skinny. post up some heights and weights of popular models and we can calculate bmi to see where they stand.
Actually, lots and lots of models have BMIs that are too low. (swimsuit models and lingerie models tend to be a little bigger, and have BMIs at the low end of normal, fashion models tend to be below normal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman
I've always wondered if there was no 'pressure' to be thin if the obesity epidemic would actually be higher or lower. If people continually told overweight/obese people they look great/attractive/healthy why would they even want to change their lifestyle? Too much positive reinforcement about accepting your own bodyweight however heavy would not work and make matters worse.
I find it ironic that for a culture that glamorizes thin, we buck the trend and get fatter and fatter. Very sad.
We glamorize thin at all costs, with no relationship to being/acting healthy or adopting healthy habits. As a result people do dumb stuff, including unhealthy stuff to "look" healthy. Instead of actually being healthy. And our definition of healthy habits changes every two minutes and is based more on what big ag or big food wants to sell and not what our bodies need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
But it's important to little kids for at least a portion of their young lives. It may seem silly to an adult but a child doesn't know any better.
I also don't think a plus sized princess "encourages obesity" as so many people alledge. Kids are smart enough to mimic the traits they admire and bypass those they do not. I think (and have stated so already on this thread) that a chubby Disney princess could go a long way toward affecting cultural biases about overweight people. Disney princesses are usually smart, courageous and decisive. If the company portrayed a chubby lead character with these traits it would fly in the face of the often innaccurate stereotype that fat people are lazy, lack self control, make excuses, etc. And I think that would be a very positive message to send.
Exactly. Portraying "princesses" of all sizes as positive is good for society.
No. Sends the wrong message...if Disney princesses do send that much of a message to girls over the age of 8.
Girl in the picture needs to embrace better eating and exercise habits. Kids don't need to be told, being overweight is ok, they will get that way as they age.
Odd that we have this issue with the "plus sized" idea but look at the proportions of any of the princesses and they are clearly very underweight. Seriously, look at their waists, they are narrower than their HEADS. No one is complaining that there is a relationship between eating disorder and underweight princesses.
True there are.a lot more negative connotations associated with being fat. But I know plenty of super thin girls who constantly were told negative things about needing to eat, etc. matter of fact I know quite a few that were willing to use extreme measures to gain weight because they didnt feel sexy or desirable.
While they are seen differently, it cannot be denied that both have faced criticism.
The truth as to why people seem to hate fat more is probably because of all the negative things people feel it represents in society and about that person specifically. it can be uncomfortable to see someond very big. most people on some level understand that your outer appearance and how you appear to take care of yourself is a projection of how you feel inside.. So drawing this conclusion it would seem as if people feel that thinner people are taking care of themselves(even if its not true) and feel better about who they are. It's uncomfortable to look at it that way, but I know plenty of folks that questioned how someone can let themselves get so big...
on a much more shallow note, a lot of people don't like how fat looks and they don't want to see it.
it also may trigger a fear for a lot of people, this uncomfortable notion that they too can get just as big, etc. whereas a thin person may encourage one to fantasize about getting as thin as they are, etc. which is almost the opposite of fear.
To be frank there are just wayyyy more positive connotations associated with being thin than there are fat and that is probably why on a general level people are so against fatness. Not to mention you rarely hear about health risks to being thin, but you almost always hear about the risks of being overweight.
Disney princess could go a long way toward affecting cultural biases about overweight people. Disney princesses are usually smart, courageous and decisive. If the company portrayed a chubby lead character with these traits it would fly in the face of the often innaccurate stereotype that fat people are lazy, lack self control, make excuses, etc. And I think that would be a very positive message to send.
The amount of people who's weight can be blamed on an actual illness known to cause weight gain is very small. About 10% of overweight and obese people have genetics that are theorized to predispose one to weight gain, but the amount these genes factor in to your weight can vary from person to person from 25% to 80%; however, even this predisposition can be overcome.
On the other hand, less than 25% of the population participates in the government recommended amount of 1 hour of moderate exercise a day and 25% of the population admits completely shunning any type of physical activity.
So to say that these are steroetypes or cultural biases seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Most adults are well aware of the causes and rammifications of being overweight or obese, and a large percentage of these adults have decided to remain overweight.
On an unrelated note, I think it is very easy to agree on cases where someone is obviously overweight or underweight, but to try and mandate that only "healthy" or "average" people be shown seems rather pointless. There is no true measurement of healthy, or average, and people will continue to pick physical traits to demonize or stigmatize even if we all had the same BMI. My anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that most people who are advocating for healthy or average models are women who are nowhere near healthy or average, and the people who continue to purchase products, magazines, and click on yahoo articles about women who they believe to be anorexic, media-driven role-models are usually women as well. Guys are not sitting around discussing Jennifer Lawrence's weight or lusting after 90 pound vogue models. One of the most popular SI models, Kate Upton, is quite popular with men but constantly attacked by female fashion bloggers for not being "in-shape".
Isn't the origin of this discussion to emphasize the kind of representation that's healthy and attainable for young girls as opposed to what a middle aged guy thinks is hot?
Nope. I think the origin really is about what the OP and her supporters think fat women being underrepresented in Disney animated movies. They want to see more fat people. However, I think society wants to continue to see the positive, healthy, normal sized based on animated characters in the movies princesses that we all (especially little girls) know and love. Having Ogre Princess Fiona and the little girl from Lilo and Stitch aren't enough. They want to see animated Rebel Wilsons or the Garboure Sibojedibleieaie (sp) portrayed as princess because they can relate to them.
Pnce again,I'm not too sure why people equate waist size with body mass.
You can be thin in the waist AND obese believe ot or not.
You can also be thick in the waist AND thin.
In any event,what is "normal"?
Disney has had this discussion before,with Princess Tiana from "The princess and the frog".
Celebrate diversity,including body shapes and sizes.
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