When did good grooming become effeminate or "metro" for men? (legs, girls)

[turf3]

Well, fifty years ago, women were expected to spend large portions of their time and energy on their appearance, frantically seeking to eliminate any sings of aging (oh my god! a wrinkle), removing all body hair, and in general trying to achieve a kind of merging of prepubescence and lubricious sluttiness. Men were allowed to show signs of aging (wrinkles, roughened skin and hands, grey hair) on their faces and bodies and were allowed to have their body hair as it naturally grew. As long as you were clean, well groomed (by which I mean neat hair cut, pressed clothing, and so on, not shaved your whole body or wearing makeup) you were good to go - if you were a guy.

Susan Sontag wrote quite accurately about this double standard (probably no one here even knows who she was, never mind actually having read her essay "The Double Standard of Aging").

So now, fifty years on, the gender-equality solution has been for corporate interests and social media to aggressively market - what? Men taking up the same insane search for something that isn't natural. Now the image is a young man who has bulging muscles but no body hair. The same products that don't do anything to reverse the inevitable signs of aging will now be frantically and uselessly bought by men.

If there's existence beyond death, Sontag is spinning as fast as she can, in her grave.

Ten or twenty years from now, when all y'all have been completely controlled by your 3" screens and your 70" screens, just remember that there are a few (by that time, really old) people who told you way back when, that consumerist conformity and conformist consumption are CHOICES and that you can actually opt out of those behaviors.

[Lovehound]

I'll use skin care products (retinol, moisturizer) but it's over the limit to do the waxing thing. I'm lucky to have light body hair and I don't need that. It's common sense to take care of hygiene and shave every day, and hair combed if going out.

My clothing is standard casual (button shirt or t-shirt, blue or black jeans, cowboy boots. (I absolutely love my boots and have 5 pairs! 1. classic black, 2. caiman, 3. boa, 4. blue ostrich, 5. horseback riding boots. Boots are my passion!) I feel really good dressed nicely casual but with my own fashion flair the boots. I wanted to look just a bit different from the usual. I have a black Stetson fedora I wear sometimes, Stetson cowboy and a straw cowboy hat for horseback riding, and the usual assortment of baseball hats. I sometimes wear the fedora for a date but usually date bare headed.

I do have thick eyebrows which need periodic trimming. Mustache too which of course needs its own grooming.

I don't think I qualify as metro. I'm just a neat dresser casual guy, but I like to look my best out in public. I like to talk to people I meet while shopping etc. and I feel more outgoing when I'm dressed and groomed nicely.

[OttoR]

Originally Posted by turf3

There is a big difference between "good grooming" (keeping shaven (your face!)), neatly styled hair, clean properly tailored clothes (that fit! not undersized) neatly pressed, fingernails without grime under them, etc. -

versus

- Being obsessed with what a bunch of large companies advertise through anorexic male models; shaving off all your body hair, wearing makeup, wearing your suits two sizes too small because fashion models do it, carefully trimming your beard so you always look like you have exactly two days' growth, and so on.

^^^ Yeah, this! Don't forget the carefully sculpted eye-browns like a woman's!

[gentlearts]

Both men and women are more casual than in OPs grandfathers day. When I was a teen, I wore high heels and a dress to go shopping. In those old movies from the 30s, even the bank robbers wore suits and hats.
Its not so much about grooming as it is changing styles.

[NY 915]

Originally Posted by gentlearts

In those old movies from the 30s, even the bank robbers wore suits and hats...

They certainly did



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21b9Nr4VIcI

[Atlanta_BD]

I don't know what happened but I do think men don't take care of themselves like they used. Men even show up on dates sloppily dressed now. I don't understand. I prefer a well-groomed man.

[turf3]

Again, "well groomed", to most men, means:

Recent hair cut, hair neatly combed
Closely shaven (except, of course, where you have facial hair)
Clean
Good fitting clothes, clean, neat, well pressed, appropriate for the occasion and good color choices
Teeth brushed!
Shoes shined if applicable
No grease under fingernails

And so on, NOT:

All your body hair shaved off
Wearing makeup
Look like you spent more time in front of the mirror getting ready than your date did
Your pants are two sizes too tight

And so on.

I think most normal women would be unhappy if their date did not meet the first set of standards and would look somewhat askance at someone who fit the second set.

[Lovehound]

^^^^ What turf3 said. I agree 100%. (I'm a man. That's my standard too.)

[katharsis]

Originally Posted by turf3

There is a big difference between "good grooming" (keeping shaven (your face!)), neatly styled hair, clean properly tailored clothes (that fit! not undersized) neatly pressed, fingernails without grime under them, etc. -

versus

- Being obsessed with what a bunch of large companies advertise through anorexic male models; shaving off all your body hair, wearing makeup, wearing your suits two sizes too small because fashion models do it, carefully trimming your beard so you always look like you have exactly two days' growth, and so on.

YES to the above!

I think what was described in the OP is an oversimplification. My husband is a a fairly typical straight male who could not care less about fashion -- he still has a tendency to wear his t-shirts tucked into his shorts, and white crew socks and tennis shoes complete the look, plus he is about 30 pounds overweight -- but he is always clean and clean-shaven, his hair is combed, his clothes are unstained, and his nails are never grimy when he goes anywhere outside the home.

[kitty61]

Originally Posted by JONOV

Serious question. You wouldn't have said that to my grandfather, at least you wouldn't have walked away if you did. And from what I see, he was very typical of his generation (WW2 Generation.) I don't think he went more than three weeks without a haircut. His nails were always short and clean. He shaved every morning. He originally used Aqua Velva or some caustic aftershave but by the time I was around, had moved to something that was probably good for the skin, Nivea or somesuch product. He liked the smell but also thought it was good for his skin. He was a nice dresser too, and even when I was in high school his hand me downs were nice stuff that I had zero self consciousness wearing. They weren't super trendy but neither were they old man clothes. I still have a few of his belts and a pair of his shorts. When he passed and the family was going through the house, his Allen Edmunds shoes were popular with a few of my cousins, who are honestly way more fashionable than I am.

Aside from being a nice dresser, he seems much like most other men from his generation. So I wonder, at what point did it become an insult or a characteristic generally incongruous with heterosexual men? With the Baby Boomer Gen X, the hippies or the Grunge crowd? I do notice that my dad and his brothers are, on average (there are always exceptions and variations) often less well put together.

I wondered what you all thought, or if anyone else saw something of a double standard among the generations.

I like clean-shaven men that wear something other than holey jeans (dreadful) and faded T-shirts everyday.
Nice shirts and ties, slacks, belts, cuff-links, shaven faces, and clipped/styled hair now seems to be more the norm for wealthy people rather than middle-class. Says something.
The bristle-haired beards look scruffy and wreak havoc on the delicately-skinned faces of women. Imagine getting really "romantic" and ending up with whisker-burn (scratched, red, irritated face).