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Old 08-31-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Coachella Valley, California
15,568 posts, read 37,071,504 times
Reputation: 13217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Which is partially my point. Do you understand what you just posted? It appears that you are using it to try to contradict what I've been saying. However, it is not in contradiction to my posts.

Also, there's more to the private property vs. public property argument, but my posts only fall on deaf ears and ignorance of the law and of the constitution. You would need to sit in a few law school classes to understand each and every nuance. I don't have the time to teach you, sorry.

As an attorney who has practiced for many, many years, I do know what I'm talking about. If you can't set aside your personal bias and look at the law for what it is, then it doesn't matter what I post or how many times I post it. All I will say now is read and study the Constitution and the Amendments thereto. Don't just casually gloss over them in a matter of seconds, as you have clearly done here. Once you've done that, and can assimilate statute with the Constitution and Amendments, you will start to grasp the meaning.

Happy posting!
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:10 PM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,531,705 times
Reputation: 4579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinkle Toes View Post
Which is partially my point. Do you understand what you just posted? It appears that you are using it to try to contradict what I've been saying. However, it is not in contradiction to my posts.

Also, there's more to the private property vs. public property argument, but my posts only fall on deaf ears and ignorance of the law and of the constitution. You would need to sit in a few law school classes to understand each and every nuance. I don't have the time to teach you, sorry.

As an attorney who has practiced for many, many years, I do know what I'm talking about. If you can't set aside your personal bias and look at the law for what it is, then it doesn't matter what I post or how many times I post it. All I will say now is read and study the Constitution and the Amendments thereto. Don't just casually gloss over them in a matter of seconds, as you have clearly done here. Once you've done that, and can assimilate statute with the Constitution and Amendments, you will start to grasp the meaning.

Happy posting!
You're referring to California law and not the First Amendment. And I think it only applies to political material. But I'm not attorney and I don't live in California.

How many many cases have you tried in federal court on the Constitution?

I posted the First Amendment and bolded where it refers to the US Government.

I see that you choose not to reply to wearing the shirt on school property.

"I don't have the time to teach you, sorry."

LOL...That's an answer in it's self...LOL

It's time for you to hit the ballroom floor...
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:36 PM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,531,705 times
Reputation: 4579
Here, from the ACLU.


"The Right of Free Speech"

"The right of free speech is guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Washington state Constitution. The right of free speech protects more than the right to talk. It protects expression and communication of all sorts, including picketing, leafleting, marching to city hall, gathering signatures, or wearing an armband."


"Shopping Malls and Other Private Commercial Property"

"Under federal law, private landowners historically have had the right to prevent anyone from speaking or demonstrating on their property. A person refusing to leave after being asked to do so could be prosecuted for trespassing. Although the U.S. Constitution may not grant us free speech rights at shopping malls12, some state constitutions do."

ACLU of Washington | Street Speech: Your Rights in Washington to Parade, Picket, and Leaflet

^^^
Is what I have been saying..
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:45 PM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,531,705 times
Reputation: 4579
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I am a conservative person (and a conservative dresser), but I could care less what someone is wearing on their shirt.

That's their shirt, their right to display whatever belief or idea they want, and how is it even my business? Don't like it, don't look at it.
And as an adult you have that chose but your child may not understand that chose!

And I'll take it that it would be Okay with you if your neighbor across the street put big old signs in his front yard for your children to see with "F**K YOU" on them!
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:46 PM
 
Location: SoCal - Sherman Oaks & Woodland Hills
12,977 posts, read 30,132,812 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie_Dokie! View Post
I was shopping the other day and saw a couple with three small children. The man was wearing a t-shirt that said "F*** em" in big letters on the front.
Aren't there laws against profanity in public places?
I felt so sorry for those little girls.
I just can't imagine my mom or dad wearing something like that at all!
What is wrong with people today?! No class at all!

Okie
Thats really sad.

Not too long ago I was behind an SUV here in LA that had a huge Oakland Raider logo sticker on the back window and just under big words saying "F*** Yeah". Just under the "F*** Yeah" part were the family stickers with Dad, Mom, Junior, Hector, Jose, Maria, Martha, Claudia and Oscar. Poor kids dont have a chance.

Guess I should also mention that it had a R.I.P. Lil Smokey 1988-2008 (or something like that) on the back window as well. Real classy folks.
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Old 08-31-2009, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,138 posts, read 54,250,117 times
Reputation: 72908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
And as an adult you have that chose but your child may not understand that chose!

And I'll take it that it would be Okay with you if your neighbor across the street put big old signs in his front yard for your children to see with "F**K YOU" on them!
No. But there are specific neighborhood rules that would not allow that. In fact, we chose this neighborhood bc there are such stringent rules about everything to do with your house/property. That was a choice we made.

If my neighbor wants to wear an F U shirt and stand outside his house all day, it would not bother me one bit. Because I don't plan on sheltering my children from everything in the world that I don't agree with.

If the guy wearing the F U shirt wanted to go somewhere that had an agreed-upon rule that it was not allowed (like restaurants that require jacket and tie or a school with a dress code, etc), then he would have a problem.

Walking around in public...no, I really don't care. Didn't care when I was a kid. My parents taught me right and wrong and didn't hide the world from me....and I believe I have a moral center that's far from what you'd commonly find in others.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Coachella Valley, California
15,568 posts, read 37,071,504 times
Reputation: 13217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
Here, from the ACLU.


"The Right of Free Speech"

"The right of free speech is guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Washington state Constitution. The right of free speech protects more than the right to talk. It protects expression and communication of all sorts, including picketing, leafleting, marching to city hall, gathering signatures, or wearing an armband."


"Shopping Malls and Other Private Commercial Property"

"Under federal law, private landowners historically have had the right to prevent anyone from speaking or demonstrating on their property. A person refusing to leave after being asked to do so could be prosecuted for trespassing. Although the U.S. Constitution may not grant us free speech rights at shopping malls12, some state constitutions do."

ACLU of Washington | Street Speech: Your Rights in Washington to Parade, Picket, and Leaflet

^^^
Is what I have been saying..
I wasn't going to come back, but you basically compelled me to do so. No, I am not quoting California law. I am quoting Constitutional law.

Of course a private landowner has the right to set the rules for entry onto his property. But those rules must be expressly stated, or implied by common course and practice. Every dimwit and their granny knows that.

You brought up this very forum in an earlier post as something that bars your first amendment right against free speech. Yes, CD is privately owned and can set and enforce rules against certain speech. That is a given. The very fact that in order to become a member and post in here, you have to agree to their terms of service is indicative of that.

A mall is different. How many malls have you been to where you can't get in unless you agree to their rules or their terms of service before they allow you in? How many malls have you been to that have a BIG sign out front telling you what their rules are?

You are right - a private landowner does have the right to create their own rules - so long as those rules are not oppressive. I am very appreciative that you went out of your way to link me to the ACLU website. Life's tough. However, I would not recommend gathering snipets of information from the ACLU website (or any website, for that matter) as your citation source, or for your legal education. Going to the actual law itself is always best.

To answer your question - I have tried cases in Federal court and the Ninth Circuit numerous times. How many cases have YOU tried in Federal court? Granted, I don't practice in Federal court all the time, but my husband practices in Federal court exclusively.

Now ... about that dance ... you wanna take me for a spin around the ballroom?
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:54 PM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,531,705 times
Reputation: 4579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinkle Toes View Post
I wasn't going to come back, but you basically compelled me to do so. No, I am not quoting California law. I am quoting Constitutional law.

Of course a private landowner has the right to set the rules for entry onto his property. But those rules must be expressly stated, or implied by common course and practice. Every dimwit and their granny knows that.

You brought up this very forum in an earlier post as something that bars your first amendment right against free speech. Yes, CD is privately owned and can set and enforce rules against certain speech. That is a given. The very fact that in order to become a member and post in here, you have to agree to their terms of service is indicative of that.

A mall is different. How many malls have you been to where you can't get in unless you agree to their rules or their terms of service before they allow you in? How many malls have you been to that have a BIG sign out front telling you what their rules are?

You are right - a private landowner does have the right to create their own rules - so long as those rules are not oppressive. I am very appreciative that you went out of your way to link me to the ACLU website. Life's tough. However, I would not recommend gathering snipets of information from the ACLU website (or any website, for that matter) as your citation source, or for your legal education. Going to the actual law itself is always best.

To answer your question - I have tried cases in Federal court and the Ninth Circuit numerous times. How many cases have YOU tried in Federal court? Granted, I don't practice in Federal court all the time, but my husband practices in Federal court exclusively.

Now ... about that dance ... you wanna take me for a spin around the ballroom?
I could use the dance lessons...

"How many malls have you been to that have a BIG sign out front telling you what their rules are?"

Walmart does not have a sign saying "no stealing" but I know I will be arrested if I do.

A mall does not have to post rules.

And I guess you don't believe what comes from the ACLU web site...I don't like them either but they do understand the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

"Going to the actual law itself is always best."

Being that I have no law books, post the law here for me or give me the information and where it's located (which law book) and I will see if I can look it up.
Case law would be okay.

I posted what I could find on the ACLU site here so You should do the same and post something to back up what you are saying.
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:00 PM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,531,705 times
Reputation: 4579
I'll post this again and you can show me the LAW where it is wrong...Case law would be good.

"Under federal law, private landowners historically have had the right to prevent anyone from speaking or demonstrating on their property. A person refusing to leave after being asked to do so could be prosecuted for trespassing. Although the U.S. Constitution may not grant us free speech rights at shopping malls12, some state constitutions do."

And California is one of those states along with around six others.

ACLU of Washington | Street Speech: Your Rights in Washington to Parade, Picket, and Leaflet
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:06 PM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,531,705 times
Reputation: 4579
1 2 3 back 1 front 1 2 right...

I think I just tripped over my left foot...
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