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Old 12-14-2021, 12:44 PM
 
Location: US
1,193 posts, read 3,992,205 times
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Do the property owners have any input into these changes or are they driven by the company that owns the POA? It seems like a silly organization.
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Old 12-14-2021, 03:02 PM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
8,924 posts, read 4,632,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Arp View Post
Do the property owners have any input into these changes or are they driven by the company that owns the POA? It seems like a silly organization.
HOA'sand POA's, like any government, seems, after a while, to take on a life of its own. Michael's Iron Law of Oligarchy says a loud and activist minority will rise to take control.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...467-8675.12494

Then they take a meandering path from beneficent authoritarianism, towards ever more tyrannical, until they eventually have to have a Day of Reckoning. This can be slowed, by a well written Constitution.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/29...ncient-rights/

The same journey runs its course in a neighborhood Home Owner Association, as it does in National Governments. Often, with the HOA, The Reckoning comes with a decline in property value.
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Old 12-14-2021, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, AR
425 posts, read 505,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Arp View Post
silly organization.
That’s an understatement. We have a ‘POA’, an ‘ACC’, and ‘Cooper Communities’ (the original developer), and all of them have a certain amount of control. Our monthly dues fund the empires.
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Old 12-15-2021, 08:24 AM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
8,924 posts, read 4,632,086 times
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Originally Posted by vcvs View Post
That’s an understatement. We have a ‘POA’, an ‘ACC’, and ‘Cooper Communities’ (the original developer), and all of them have a certain amount of control. Our monthly dues fund the empires.
You might want to look at your contracts, when I was looking at some property a couple years back I saw something that indicated developer covenants were only good for 20 years. I wonder if Bella Vista has been around that long.

EDIT to ADD: I checked, and the village was incorporated in 2006. Some of you might want to read the Municipal Code, and become some of those activists, so you can be the one to change things. Bella Vista is small enough, if quite a few of you can band together, you might find you have some political clout.

Last edited by TRex2; 12-15-2021 at 08:39 AM..
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Old 12-15-2021, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, AR
425 posts, read 505,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
You might want to look at your contracts, when I was looking at some property a couple years back I saw something that indicated developer covenants were only good for 20 years. I wonder if Bella Vista has been around that long.

EDIT to ADD: I checked, and the village was incorporated in 2006. Some of you might want to read the Municipal Code, and become some of those activists, so you can be the one to change things. Bella Vista is small enough, if quite a few of you can band together, you might find you have some political clout.
I’ll certainly give it a look. As it stands right now, the POA owns and controls the water supply. Fail to follow the rules or pay dues and they lock your meter. I wish I were exaggerating, but I’m not.
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Old 12-17-2021, 01:27 AM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
8,924 posts, read 4,632,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcvs View Post
I’ll certainly give it a look. As it stands right now, the POA owns and controls the water supply. Fail to follow the rules or pay dues and they lock your meter. I wish I were exaggerating, but I’m not.
Just to be clear, developer covenants expire (the length of time may vary) but POA's don't.

They are basically a second government, in addition to your municipal government, with less accessibility, less transparency and less accountability.

I brought up the subject about 15 months ago, although the discussion was meant to be generic.
https://www.city-data.com/forum/arka...-restrict.html
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Old 12-27-2021, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Arkansas
290 posts, read 151,199 times
Reputation: 413
I'm a newcomer to Bella Vista, as my wife and I moved here toward the beginning of 2020. At first I was very wary, having read all manner of horror stories about HOA's and their associated committees, but my wife was persuasive enough that I obtained a copy of the protective covenants and read them very carefully from beginning to end. I felt that there was nothing in the restrictions which was too outrageous or that I couldn't live with (unlike some restrictive covenants I found in other developments). So Bella Vista it was to be, and I'm certainly happy with living here and don't think I would be at all happy in Bentonville, Centerton etc. which are far too busy and noisy for me.

One thing we needed was a good fence for the four-legged members of our family, and we made sure that we would be able to erect what we wanted prior to purchase, so we were aware of the "no white fences" rule as it applies to new construction according to the ACC's current policy. That's fair enough (although even so it didn't go entirely smoothly, but that's another story).

No doubt like many Bella Vista residents, I found out about the supposed new rule relating to the removal or repainting of existing white fences only by way of the small ad in the regular newsletter. Having studied the restrictive covenants so carefully before we purchased, that ad set alarm bells ringing for me immediately, so I found the ACC's notice about the change of policy on the website and went right back through all the covenants to confirm what my memory was already telling me - That the ACC simply does not have the power to demand that something previously approved be removed.

The covenants grant power to the ACC to approve new construction, alterations or additions to existiing buildings, and so on. Nowhere do they give the ACC the authority to, effectively, "unapprove" something which has previously been approved and require it to be removed or changed. I'm no lawyer, but I can read the relatively plain English of the covenants, so it seems to me that the ACC is trying to exercise a power that it simply does not have.

Reading the ACC's "Chapter 5 Design Standards" policy document has also revealed a few other cases in which it seems that the ACC within the last few years has passed resolutions which it does not have the legal power to enforce. There is a section regarding the parking of RV's, boats, golf carts, travel trailers, and similar vehicles, for example, indicating that from a certain date they required a protective screening to be erected so as to render the vehicle invisible from the road, but with larger vehicles which could not be so screened grandfathered if owned prior to the effective date. But then from January 1, 2021 they are demanding that such vehicles be completely removed from the property if such screening is not possible. There is also a clause which says they will "allow" such vehicles to be parked on a property for up to 7 days for loading/unloading etc., and another which says the vehicle must be parked on a hard surface, with detailed specifications of such, no less. There is absolutely nothing in the restrictive covenants which gives the ACC any power whatsoever to control what type of vehicle a resident may park on his own property, in what manner or for how long, nor is there anything which grants the ACC power to require protective screening of a vehicle. My wife and I arrived here by RV and were planning on keeping our relatively modest 28 ft. unit parked on the concrete drive right up at the side of the house. Having seen restrictions on RV's in so many other HOA/POA communities that was also something I'd checked for very carefully in the restrictive covenants. As it turned out we did not keep the RV, but one of our neighbors informed us recently of receiving a letter from the ACC ordering them to screen or remove such a vehicle, so it seems the ACC is going out to try and enforce this policy as well. There are other "rules" in that document which also do not appear to be supported by the restrictive covenants, but I believe I have made my point.

As a place, I love Bella Vista. We have peace and quiet, beautiful surroundings, and lovely neighbors. I am a little concerned at what appears to be vast overreach by the ACC, and believe that residents need to challenge the ACC any time it tries to enforce something which is not within its powers. Let them get away with ordering you to remove a fence which has previously been erected with the approval of that same ACC, and where could it end? Ultimately, if the ACC claims it has the power to demand something be changed simply because it has changed its policy on new construction, it could come along a few years after one has built a new home and demand that the windows all be changed, or that the roof be replaced, or even that the home be demolished entirely and rebuilt to meet its new, changed policies. Clearly that would be ridiculous.
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Old 12-27-2021, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Arkansas
290 posts, read 151,199 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
You might want to look at your contracts, when I was looking at some property a couple years back I saw something that indicated developer covenants were only good for 20 years. I wonder if Bella Vista has been around that long.
The original developer covenants here date from 1965 (which is probably why they don't contain the outrageous restrictions of some more recent ones) and ran for 26 years. A clause sets out that the covenants automatically renew for successive periods of 10 years, unless changed by a two-thirds majority vote of POA members. The only amendment to date was in 1993, allowing the ACC to charge fees, separate from POA membership dues.
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Old 12-29-2021, 04:42 AM
 
200 posts, read 156,944 times
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Just depends if the Declaration was properly amended and approved, then filed.


The ACC can make changes based on a 'process' that is set forth.....that includes restrictions and modifications.
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Old 12-29-2021, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Arkansas
290 posts, read 151,199 times
Reputation: 413
The covenants here grant the ACC powers to make and amend policy regarding materials, colors, placement etc. of new buildings, fences, and so on, so the ACC's amendment to prohibit new white fences some years ago is fine. But there is no process in place which permits the ACC to grant itself new powers and the authority to demand the removal of something which has already been built with its approval.

Having been very skeptical of living in any HOA/POA community, if there was anything along those lines in the declarations there is no way I would have even considered Bella Vista as a possibility, no matter how nice it is to live here - Far too many horror stories of HOA's with those sort of powers out there!
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