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Old 04-16-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,213 posts, read 22,351,209 times
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In the book Outliers, author Malcom Gladwell says it takes roughly 10,000 hours of practice to master anything.
A person's natural ability, something most commonly called talent, doesn't matter very much. It's the time spent in practicing that makes the difference between a master and one who is not.

Here's a summary of Gladwell's book:
10,000 Hours of Practice - WisdomGroup

After reading the book, I completely agree. At 8 hours a day, a year's practice is around 3,000 hours. 10,000 hours is 3 1/2 years with that much practice at anything.

A kid who loves basketball will shoot hoops for hours. If the love of the game is large enough, a parent will know where the child is- out in the back yard or in the driveway, dribbling and shooting a basketball. They're doing it because they love it, and because they love it, they want to be better, and becoming better only increases the love of the game.

But love isn't the key to practice. An adult who enjoys their work and gains satisfaction from a job well done will also become a master in the same 3 1/2 years by just showing up for work every day. Mastery can be anything from business management to something entirely intellectual, such as philosophy.

At 4 hours a day, the time needed doubles to 7 years. At 2 hours a day, it's 14 before the 10,000 hours is reached.

For amateur artists in any of the arts, it's not talent, nor inspiration, nor any of the things most folks think are needed. Practice alone does it in the end. if a person has some natural genetic ability that isn't used to it's fullest, the ability is never realized to it's fullest.

I started drawing when I was very young, so I hit 10,000 hours while I was still in grade school. I began playing the banjo at age 18, and became addicted to it, but by then, I had other things that needed to be learned and accomplished, so I hit 10,000 around 7 years of playing.

What do you think about this?
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
1,989 posts, read 2,534,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
What do you think about this?
Gladwell's books are long on entertainment and short on thought. The 10,000 hours thing is pretty stupid.
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Old 04-17-2014, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,213 posts, read 22,351,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
Gladwell's books are long on entertainment and short on thought. The 10,000 hours thing is pretty stupid.
What makes you think so? I'm curious, as it made sense to me.
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Old 04-20-2014, 03:22 PM
 
15,592 posts, read 15,659,624 times
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I can't comment on the validity of Gladwell's idea, but I'll say that it probably isn't just the "practice" of doing something on your own, but in part in conduction with lessons. In other words, your years of drawing in school when you were 8 years old doesn't count.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:02 PM
 
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I don't practice hardly at all and never have. Yet I can draw a cat, horse, person or just about anything at any time. I guess I could improve with more practice, but if you have talent you have talent. I don't think it's something you can just learn because you have practiced.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,213 posts, read 22,351,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayekaye View Post
I don't practice hardly at all and never have. Yet I can draw a cat, horse, person or just about anything at any time. I guess I could improve with more practice, but if you have talent you have talent. I don't think it's something you can just learn because you have practiced.
Learning and practice go hand in hand. Some folks have innate abilities, and for them drawing or painting can be easier and more interesting than for those who lack the abilities.

Most people like to do what they find they're naturally good at doing, so practice isn't a chore. It's something they simply really like doing. Practice is what makes good dancers great dancers, good singers great singers, and good artists great artists.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,807,166 times
Reputation: 40166
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
In the book Outliers, author Malcom Gladwell says it takes roughly 10,000 hours of practice to master anything.
A person's natural ability, something most commonly called talent, doesn't matter very much. It's the time spent in practicing that makes the difference between a master and one who is not.

Here's a summary of Gladwell's book:
10,000 Hours of Practice - WisdomGroup

After reading the book, I completely agree. At 8 hours a day, a year's practice is around 3,000 hours. 10,000 hours is 3 1/2 years with that much practice at anything.

A kid who loves basketball will shoot hoops for hours. If the love of the game is large enough, a parent will know where the child is- out in the back yard or in the driveway, dribbling and shooting a basketball. They're doing it because they love it, and because they love it, they want to be better, and becoming better only increases the love of the game.

But love isn't the key to practice. An adult who enjoys their work and gains satisfaction from a job well done will also become a master in the same 3 1/2 years by just showing up for work every day. Mastery can be anything from business management to something entirely intellectual, such as philosophy.

At 4 hours a day, the time needed doubles to 7 years. At 2 hours a day, it's 14 before the 10,000 hours is reached.

For amateur artists in any of the arts, it's not talent, nor inspiration, nor any of the things most folks think are needed. Practice alone does it in the end. if a person has some natural genetic ability that isn't used to it's fullest, the ability is never realized to it's fullest.

I started drawing when I was very young, so I hit 10,000 hours while I was still in grade school. I began playing the banjo at age 18, and became addicted to it, but by then, I had other things that needed to be learned and accomplished, so I hit 10,000 around 7 years of playing.

What do you think about this?
I think it's a silly idea.

First, what does it mean to 'master'?

Second, it's simply not true. It certainly doesn't require 10,000 hours to 'master' Tic Tac Toe, no matter how you define the term.

Third, how can we compare 'mastery' (once we define it) across disciplines to disparate as, say, golf and piloting 747s and playing the cello? That answer is that we can't.

It's just too simplistic an idea to cover such a vast array of individual people and individual activities, and conclude that those people happen to all be able to 'master' something, regardless of what it is, after practicing a number of hours that just happens to be extremely round.

By the way, I say this as one who likes very much some of what Gladwell has written.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,213 posts, read 22,351,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
I think it's a silly idea.

First, what does it mean to 'master'?

Second, it's simply not true. It certainly doesn't require 10,000 hours to 'master' Tic Tac Toe, no matter how you define the term.

Third, how can we compare 'mastery' (once we define it) across disciplines to disparate as, say, golf and piloting 747s and playing the cello? That answer is that we can't.

It's just too simplistic an idea to cover such a vast array of individual people and individual activities, and conclude that those people happen to all be able to 'master' something, regardless of what it is, after practicing a number of hours that just happens to be extremely round.

By the way, I say this as one who likes very much some of what Gladwell has written.
Mastery, by the definition of the book, is full competency in the endeavor.
It is true, though, that some things don't need that much time. Your example of tic tac toe is valid.

EVen so, very much of competency comes with practice that isn't thought of as practice. An accountant, for example, is practicing his skills continuously while he is doing his job. And so is an auto assembly line worker, or a golfer, or an airplane pilot.
The competency only displays itself in the subtle or difficult or critical or sudden demands of the endeavor. The person who has the skills may never know their depth until something arises. He may never be aware at all of how fully he has mastered something for the length of his life, but awareness is not a requirement in the idea.

There is nothing in the concept that says all people are able to master anything. The book recognizes that most things in life won't ever become fully competent for all of us, but after 10,000 hours that are applied to an endeavor, any person is fully and functionally competent in that single endeavor.

Whether a person goes on to be exceptionally great at it is another matter that often lies outside what practice along brings. The world's greatest living artist may never be recognized as such by this philosophy, but he or she still exists.
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Old 05-18-2014, 06:40 AM
Status: "119 N/A" (set 20 days ago)
 
12,956 posts, read 13,668,599 times
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A person with a college degree in music performance has around four or five years of study on an instrument. If they applied them selves properly they would have about 10,000 hours of practice, applied lessons, rehearsal, and performance experience. At the end of this process they should have gone from a high school band geek to a concert performer with a Bachelor of music in science (BMS) I have seen this happen with more than one individual who had no music lessons previous to college.
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Old 05-18-2014, 08:28 AM
 
18,381 posts, read 19,012,572 times
Reputation: 15698
I agree for the most part with the OP. people say all the time I can't draw. well yes you can, practice and you will. put it in your head you can't do something and you won't be able to. check out mona brooks's books, if you can draw a line you can draw anything.

practice does make perfect. you have to have passion about your art to be good at it. the will to become better or it won't happen.

Drawing With Children: A Creative Method for Adult Beginners, Too: Mona Brookes: 9780874778274: Amazon.com: Books
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