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Old 03-18-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,896,363 times
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To the OP, my only recommendation to you would be this;

Start yourself out with a 10 gallon, maybe a 20, try it on for awhile and see how it fits. You already know that you want a bigger tank so going through several little ones as has been outlined here shouldn't be a problem. If you find that you still have a strong interest in a couple months, maybe even a year, go for the bigger tank. The biggest priority should be the care of your fish, and people who lose interest tend to neglect that.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:37 PM
 
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Regarding plants, my java fern, java moss, and water sprite grow like weeds. They are low-light plants that require no special lighting or fertilization. I regularly sell the excess on Craigslist or aquarium forums.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post

HAHA lol, calm down freind, it's only an internet forum.
Yes, but you are sharing grossly inaccurate information. This can easily be refuted by doing some research regarding proper aquarium fish maintenance. Hopefully people will use their friend Google and learn for themselves how to give goldfish and tropical fish the proper care they need. Or at the very least, join a fishkeeping forum to find out how the vast majority care for their fish, as opposed to a few random people that toss a goldfish in a little tank and call it a day.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,896,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andthentherewere3 View Post
Yes, but you are sharing grossly inaccurate information. This can easily be refuted by doing some research regarding proper aquarium fish maintenance. Hopefully people will use their friend Google and learn for themselves how to give goldfish and tropical fish the proper care they need. Or at the very least, join a fishkeeping forum to find out how the vast majority care for their fish, as opposed to a few random people that toss a goldfish in a little tank and call it a day.
It isn't "grossly" inaccurate. You can put a small feeder gold in a 10 gal. tank and it will be just fine. As long as youdon't overcrowd the tank, no worries. Agree to disagree, I dont care.

However, I do agree that everyone should do their ownresearch and decide for themselves what they want to do.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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A good resource for any beginner.....

Goldfish Care Basics - The First Tank Guide - Tips For Giving Your Pet GOldfish A Long And Healthy Life
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,953,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Talk about myths, this is one of the most common..... aeration. The fact is aquariums don't need aeration..... at all. It is for decorative purposes only, with virtualy no benefit at at all to the fish.
.
That is not true. an aerator is not just for decoration. most aerators are not even pretty and the rubber tubing is an eyesore. There are decorative aerators

Aerators are needed for the fish to breathe in unplanted tanks.

unless you are raising labyrinth fish I would recommend an aerator in an unplanted aquarium. especially if your tank is deep and you are raising tropical fish. Cold water is more oxygenated and cold water fish seem to be able to persist in an unaerated shallow tank, but I would still aerate the tank.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
I took a look at that site. did you look under the myth section? It dispelled two of the recommendations you gave:

Quote:
http://www.firsttankguide.net/myths.php

Tiny, like 2, 3, or 5 gallon fish tanks make good beginner tanks
Actually, tiny fish tanks like these are very high maintenance and prone to problems and failures. These tiny aquarium can only be recommended to very advanced aquarium keepers who have a lot of experience maintaining fish tanks and who are ready and willing to take on the challenge one of these tiny aquarium presents - and is not concerned about the cruelty inherent in such tiny tanks. Good beginner fish tanks are always in the 15-30 gallon (that's about 60-120 liter) range.

Fish only grow to the size of their tank
This is possibly the most common myth I hear, and I know many stores still tout this as truth. however, it is untrue. To remain healthy and to live a normal and healthy life, fish need to be provided with sufficient space to grow and mature normally. More details on this can be found in the tank population and capacity information here in the First Tank Guide.
as for the comment on aeration, he poorly laid it out. He doesn't mean that aerators are just for decoration, he means it can be.

also found these tid bits on the site:

Quote:
Fish bowls require a great deal more maintenance and harder work than larger aquariums. Ideally you'll want to change 50-100% of the water in your fish bowl or small aquarium every day or every other day to prevent the tank from becoming toxic. [That is changing half to the entire tank every day!!!!!!]


Diligent maintenance of a bowl, monitoring your fish for problems and addressing them as soon as they arise, and insuring that your bowl provides sufficient space for your fish can provide an environment where your fish can remain healthy for years. Though a larger environment is always healthier and less work,
Always remember that the only real solution to keeping your fish healthy and happy will be upgrading to an appropriate sized tank of at least ten gallons with the necessary equipment to properly care for your fish.

Though a larger tank is always better for your fish, for your checkbook, and for your free time, there are fish that can be kept in small tanks. These include Rasbora Hets, White Clouds, Neon Tetras, Bettas, and Guppies. Again, any of these fish will do much better in larger tanks, and the larger tank will give you room to add more fish, reduce tank maintenance, and provide a happier, healthier life for your fish.

sorry to keep beating the point, but I just think it is really good advise to recommend a tank bigger than what the future hobbyist thinks is a good starter point.

I personally recommend somewhere around 29- 55 gallons. smaller than 29 for most fish is just setting yourself up for hassle and larger than 55g tanks are often hard to cycle because of the sheer volume of water

Last edited by HtownLove; 03-18-2012 at 05:11 PM..
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,896,363 times
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
That is not true. an aerator is not just for decoration. most aerators are not even pretty and the rubber tubing is an eyesore. There are decorative aerators

Aerators are needed for the fish to breathe in unplanted tanks.
All I know is that I haven't used an aeration system in over six years, and my aquarium is better for it. The fish haven't been affected in the slightest.


I wouldn't recommend an aerator at all because based on my experience, they are an unecessary thing and will only contribute to water evaporation at a much faster rate. This is particularly true if you have an exterior filtration system. Infact if you do have an exterior filtration system, that makes an aerator all the more unecessary.

I found it amusing that one time in my area we had a massive storm that knocked out the power all over the state. Everyone with aquariums in my town was freaking out { according to the local pet shop } because their air pumps weren't running and they were afraid the fish would die. So, they took jars of water and shook them up { their attempt to oxygenate the water I suppose }, and dumped them in their aquariums. Very unecessary. Their fish would have done well without all of that.



Quote:
I took a look at that site. did you look under the myth section? It dispelled two of the recommendations you gave:

also found these tid bits on the site:

sorry to keep beating the point, but I just think it is really good advise to recommend a tank bigger than what the future hobbyist thinks is a good starter point.
Touche on all those points you took from the site. Based on our conversation, I wouldn't recommend a fish bowl or 2.5-5 gal. aquarium because I guess they would require more attention, what with all the water changes and so forth. However, I would still only recommend a starting point of either a 10-20 gallon tank for your first year as a hobbyist. After that I would say go all out.

Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 03-18-2012 at 11:01 PM..
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,953,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
However, I would still only recommend a starting point of either a 10-20 gallon tank for your first year as a hobbyist. After that I would say go all out.
apart from the tank itself being cheaper, is there a reason why you would recommend a 10-20g tank?

trying to understand the reasoning behind it.

If all the person could afford right now is a 10g then that is what they can afford, but why would you not recommend a bigger one right now if they CAN afford it.

a used tank on most aquarium chat sites usually go for a $1 a gallon. that means if they can afford $55 they get a 55 tank (often with free lighting and other goodies). If they decide they don't want the tank anymore they simply list the tank again for same $55. No loss, no foul.

smaller tanks are often given away, so I guess that is a benefit right there, but if I am missing something tell me. I want to know the hidden benefit that would cause you to recommend a 10g instead of a 55.

I think you need to take a walk on the wild side and get yourself a huge tank get some interesting fish and be memorized you won't be recommending small tanks after than
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:59 AM
 
5,064 posts, read 15,900,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
You can put a small feeder gold in a 10 gal. tank and it will be just fine. As long as youdon't overcrowd the tank, no worries.



A good resource for any beginner.....

Goldfish Care Basics - The First Tank Guide - Tips For Giving Your Pet GOldfish A Long And Healthy Life
Most people aren't aware of it, but feeder goldfish are actually baby Comet goldfish. Comets quickly reach a foot in length. I have several in my backyard pond that are that size. How healthy is a 12" long fish going to be in an 18" long tank? That's why most "feeder" fish only live a matter of months or a few years, but a healthy one will live 25 or more years.

Most reputable websites with knowledge of goldfish will state that goldfish need 20 or more gallons for the first goldfish, and 10 gallons more per each additional goldfish. I mean, this is just the minimum, and goldfish produce a lot of waste, and the smaller the tank, the more frequently you'd need to change the water. Over time the ammonia build-up damages the fish's gills. The website you linked recommends 10 gallons for the first goldfish, but you said you have a goldfish AND a shark in your 10. Your website also states that goldfish should only be housed with goldfish, which is pretty much true. As HtownLove pointed out, it also goes on to say you'd need frequent large water changes in that small tank, etc. etc. I think your website is just trying to convince people to step up from a bowl to a small tank, to make it sound as easy as possible so people will be more willing to ditch the bowl. Your shark and your goldfish will live longer, healthier lives in larger, separate tanks. Just sayin'.

And of course your website also pointed out that it's a myth that fish only grow as large as their tank.....hopefully you're finally convinced.

I have powerful filters in my tanks, in fact most of mine have two filters in each. I get a lot of aeration in them, plus I have a lot of live plants. The only tank I also have an aerator in is my goldfish tank.

Last edited by andthentherewere3; 03-19-2012 at 06:08 AM..
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,896,363 times
Reputation: 7399
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
apart from the tank itself being cheaper, is there a reason why you would recommend a 10-20g tank?

trying to understand the reasoning behind it.

If all the person could afford right now is a 10g then that is what they can afford, but why would you not recommend a bigger one right now if they CAN afford it.

a used tank on most aquarium chat sites usually go for a $1 a gallon. that means if they can afford $55 they get a 55 tank (often with free lighting and other goodies). If they decide they don't want the tank anymore they simply list the tank again for same $55. No loss, no foul.

smaller tanks are often given away, so I guess that is a benefit right there, but if I am missing something tell me. I want to know the hidden benefit that would cause you to recommend a 10g instead of a 55.
Well I suppose if you can get a used tank at a dollar a gallon and refrain from getting a boat load of expensive accessories for awhile, the bigger tank would be the way to go. { Going only on your input without researching prices myself } I would be very careful about where I bought a used tank though. It would have to be from somewhere or someone pretty reputable.

You must be right, I admit it


Quote:
I think you need to take a walk on the wild side and get yourself a huge tank get some interesting fish and be memorized you won't be recommending small tanks after than
Do you really think so? I have to admit this conversation put that very thought in the back of my mind. Do you think I would find it more enjoyable? I do grow weary of all the added maintainence of my ten gal. If it would be more rewarding and less work, and if I could get a larger tank at a deal as you say, I just might consider it in the future.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,896,363 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by andthentherewere3 View Post
Most people aren't aware of it, but feeder goldfish are actually baby Comet goldfish. Comets quickly reach a foot in length. I have several in my backyard pond that are that size. How healthy is a 12" long fish going to be in an 18" long tank? That's why most "feeder" fish only live a matter of months or a few years, but a healthy one will live 25 or more years.

Most reputable websites with knowledge of goldfish will state that goldfish need 20 or more gallons for the first goldfish, and 10 gallons more per each additional goldfish. I mean, this is just the minimum, and goldfish produce a lot of waste, and the smaller the tank, the more frequently you'd need to change the water. Over time the ammonia build-up damages the fish's gills. The website you linked recommends 10 gallons for the first goldfish, but you said you have a goldfish AND a shark in your 10. Your website also states that goldfish should only be housed with goldfish, which is pretty much true. As HtownLove pointed out, it also goes on to say you'd need frequent large water changes in that small tank, etc. etc. I think your website is just trying to convince people to step up from a bowl to a small tank, to make it sound as easy as possible so people will be more willing to ditch the bowl. Your shark and your goldfish will live longer, healthier lives in larger, separate tanks. Just sayin'.

And of course your website also pointed out that it's a myth that fish only grow as large as their tank.....hopefully you're finally convinced.

I have powerful filters in my tanks, in fact most of mine have two filters in each. I get a lot of aeration in them, plus I have a lot of live plants. The only tank I also have an aerator in is my goldfish tank.
Thanks for your input. I'm only going on my own experience and the results I have observed with my tank. Could I be 100% wrong? Sure, but if so, my fish are the healthy exception. { they have been in the tank eight years and counting with zero problems }
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