[Gatornation]

Originally Posted by bbronston

OrlFlaUsa, I don't want to beat a dead horse so let me leave it with this. I understand that you think it is OK to take a higher percentage from higher earners (i.e. progressive tax) and, obviously, that is the way the current tables work. I disagree with that idea. In my mind, just because they can afford a higher percentage doesn't mean that they should have a higher percentage taken from them. They already have more taken from them, as you pointed out, because it is a percentage of a higher number. It's fundamentally unfair, in my opinion, and nothing less than class envy.

You keep saying it is unconstitutional to test welfare recipients but that is not correct. It may be determined to be unconstitutional at some future date but it has not yet happened. Until a court makes that determination and stops the practice, it is legal.

So I hope you've ALWAYS been against a progressive tax. You know it's existed for a while and is currently at one of it's least progressive points.

[sware2cod]

Gov. Scott, Mr Anti-Government Regulation....just added a brand new Government Regulation. How ironic.

I think the state is losing money on this. They did not take into account the governments dministrative costs/overhead for things like:

-Modify state computer systems to add new fields and new processing for Drug Test Results, Date of Test, Designated "check receiver" if person failed the test and had kids. Date of Retest and make sure it is 1 year from last test. New fields for Drug Testing center that performed the test.

-New forms for potential recipients to include drug test centers, rules, forms to fill out, etc.

-State needs to keep a list of valid drug testing centers (including updates to addresses, etc)

-State needs to receive official test results from drug testing centers and somehow get this data entered into state computer sytems. This is either an automated IT process/data feed which can be costly to build and maintain.(Maybe they outsourced to a private company, which could cost millions if they are not careful with costs) More likely, this is currently manual and requires state employees to receive test results and manually enter the data into the computer systems on a daily basis. $$$ Very costly in manpower..probably a whole new staff/team in the State Capital just to handle this stuff.

-State had to add new rules to how they process Welfare recipients and had to modify their in house training materials and retrain all employees that deal with the public for handling of welfare.

-State administration for reiembursement of drug testing fee when 96% pass. This requires individual checks, modifcation of state computer systems to handle this. Probably a costly change the the system and a whole new process for creating/sending reimbursement checks or add teh test fee to debit card of recipient. Process them daily or at least weekly. Track everything in systems. Handle calls such as "where is my reimbursement check, I never got it"

-Handle phone calls and electronic Q and A from recipients and Drug Testing Centers ..requires state employees to do additional work that was not needed prior to the law passing.

-Mail and forms and computer input for those that failed the test. if they have kids, they get money anyway. admin for sending check to designated person. Send letters of explanation.

***The above probably has an annually recurring cost to state of at least $250k/yr for staff, admin, overhead, IT system maintenance. Plus additional one time costs for the changes to the systems and processes. That is probably another $150k or more.

[Sgt. Buzzcut]

Originally Posted by FL2MT

Numbers show fewer people on welfare (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/numbers-show-fewer-people-on-welfare-08252011 - broken link)

I believe some of the 15% drop can be attributed to those folks who are on the borderline of and who would marginally qualify anyhow. A lot of people are very well aware that once all the criteria is examined they may discover, yes indeed they are eligible but for what $10 or $30 a month. It may be that since the already tiny carrot at the end of the stick is further diminished by the drug test it's just not worth pursuing.

This testing as far as I know is for new applicants so as it is now the existing, chronic dopers who are getting the max benefits aren't being weeded out yet. And are they going to catch them anyhow ?.....most harder drugs are out of the system in days and there are so many "beat the test kits" on the market nowadays it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Note the comment in the article about "We want to help families with substance abuse problems, so for those that test positive, we work with them, provide places where they can go locally and get help". I bet they do and it's called the County Jail.

[vaughanwilliams]

Originally Posted by roadtrip75

The money is just one factor. More important is the corrosive cultural effect that welfare engenders in the lower class.

I think most people don't realize that the black community was stable and cohesive before the advent of LBJ's Great Society program and the permissive social culture initiated in the 1960s. Just pointing out this fact usually provokes hostility and denunciation, which leads me to believe that there are quite a few people who DON'T WANT anybody to know this.

Ah yes, life in the black community was all skittles and beer prior to the evil "Great Society" programs.

The "lower class" doesn't know how good they had it.

[sware2cod]

Those 15% fewer welfare recipients - many probably got jobs.

The unemployment rate last year versus this year has decreased by approx 10%.

[Sgt. Buzzcut]

Originally Posted by roadtrip75

The money is just one factor. More important is the corrosive cultural effect that welfare engenders in the lower class.

I think most people don't realize that the black community was stable and cohesive before the advent of LBJ's Great Society program and the permissive social culture initiated in the 1960s. Just pointing out this fact usually provokes hostility and denunciation, which leads me to believe that there are quite a few people who DON'T WANT anybody to know this.

Maybe in Atlanta,GA but I see more white teen to mid 20's women using Snap benefits down here than any other age/race group. They are in a state of disbelief when they discover their SNAP cards don't cover energy drinks. I think the first thing that should be required if they're about to receive benefits is a cooking class because if it's not expensive packaged microwavable items , they don't have a clue what to do with it.

[$musicman$]

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?

[vaughanwilliams]

Originally Posted by $musicman$

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?

inequality.org (http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm - broken link)

It's 1929 all over again! Woooo!

[Sunny-Days-in-Florida]

I am not going back to read this entire thread but I am all for everyone who is receiving welfare getting not only a drug test but a total mental and physical check so they can go out and EARN their free benefits.

To me SS is NOT a freebie, those people worked and paid into the system but most welfare lifers have never paid or earned their handout.

4 generations of welfare families proves that the system is getting milked by losers who wont work and want a freebie from those of us who have worked and EARNED our way.

What is wrong with a healthy person on welfare EARNING their keep?

Give them the food stamps and make them cut grass along the highway, paint a building, help serve food at a school etc.

[$musicman$]

Originally Posted by $musicman$

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?

This was for anyone who doesn't realize the biggest income earners are paying the bulk of Federal taxes.