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Old 03-27-2012, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 16,009,290 times
Reputation: 6085

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Self defense against what? Against being followed? You just go ahead and attack someone? Do you attack someone because they were following you around the supermarket?



Quote:
Originally Posted by NALEXAND View Post
Should you be shot in the face if you are fighting someone with your fist, most likely in self defense?

 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:43 AM
 
26,817 posts, read 43,286,237 times
Reputation: 31407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
I heard the tapes. Zimmerman was acting as a security guard following a person who he felt was suspect as any security guard would do. While following his suspect, Zimmerman called the police. Did Martin call the police to report himself being followed and him fearing for his safety or did Martin confront Zimmerman with physical attack causing Zimmerman to use deadly force to protect his life?

Martin had no idea Zimmerman was armed. Zimmerman did not
produce a weapon until the ultimate moment where he fired, at close range, to get the assailant off of him.
Zimmerman was supposed to be acting as a Neighborhood Watch member. Neighborhood Watch members are to report suspicious activities to the police. That's it. He was informed by the 911 operator to not engage and decided to disregard. When he crossed the line from Neighborhood Watch member to vigilante it became a case of assault with intent to kill.... at minimum.

You state that Martin had no idea Zimmerman was armed until he was engaged in the altercation. How do you know that?

Also interesting that you bring up Martin's background, as conveniently not mentioned was the fact that Zimmerman was previously charged for Resisting Arrest with Violence and charged with Battery against a Law Enforcement Officer.

You clearly have a pro-NRA agenda which is fine, but look at all of the facts.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 16,009,290 times
Reputation: 6085
quote=kyle19125;23588311]Zimmerman was supposed to be acting as a Neighborhood Watch member. Neighborhood Watch members are to report suspicious activities to the police. That's it /unquote

Right. Exactly what he was doing until the kid punched him in the face and slammed Zimmeran's head against the ground.


[quote=kyle19125;23588311]He was informed by the 911 operator to not engage and decided to disregard.


No, he was told, by a civilian, that he need not to follow the person.


quote/
When he crossed the line from Neighborhood Watch member to vigilante it became a case of assault with intent to kill.... at minimum.

I don't see where he was a "vigilante" when he was acting in self defense against an attacker who was on top of him.

What would you do if you were in Zimmeran's shoes? Would you have made any attempt to protect yourself from being beaten or would you lay there like a wimp and tell the assailant it was OK to continue?

What would you do if you were at an ATM one evening and someone walked up to you and demanded that you withdraw more cash and hand it to him?

What would you do if you saw a family member being robbed at knifepoint or gun point? Would you stand there and watch?

Since you are apparently anti-self defense, anti-weapons, I guess you wouldnt have any idea on how to defend yourself or your family member and that is a disgrace.




Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Zimmerman was supposed to be acting as a Neighborhood Watch member. Neighborhood Watch members are to report suspicious activities to the police. That's it. He was informed by the 911 operator to not engage and decided to disregard. When he crossed the line from Neighborhood Watch member to vigilante it became a case of assault with intent to kill.... at minimum.

You state that Martin had no idea Zimmerman was armed until he was engaged in the altercation. How do you know that?

Also interesting that you bring up Martin's background, as conveniently not mentioned was the fact that Zimmerman was previously charged for Resisting Arrest with Violence and charged with Battery against a Law Enforcement Officer.

You clearly have a pro-NRA agenda which is fine, but look at all of the facts.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 09:23 AM
 
26,817 posts, read 43,286,237 times
Reputation: 31407
[quote=Spring Hillian;23588492]quote=kyle19125;23588311]Zimmerman was supposed to be acting as a Neighborhood Watch member. Neighborhood Watch members are to report suspicious activities to the police. That's it /unquote

Right. Exactly what he was doing until the kid punched him in the face and slammed Zimmeran's head against the ground.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
He was informed by the 911 operator to not engage and decided to disregard.


No, he was told, by a civilian, that he need not to follow the person.


quote/
When he crossed the line from Neighborhood Watch member to vigilante it became a case of assault with intent to kill.... at minimum.

I don't see where he was a "vigilante" when he was acting in self defense against an attacker who was on top of him.

What would you do if you were in Zimmeran's shoes? Would you have made any attempt to protect yourself from being beaten or would you lay there like a wimp and tell the assailant it was OK to continue?

What would you do if you were at an ATM one evening and someone walked up to you and demanded that you withdraw more cash and hand it to him?

What would you do if you saw a family member being robbed at knifepoint or gun point? Would you stand there and watch?

Since you are apparently anti-self defense, anti-weapons, I guess you wouldnt have any idea on how to defend yourself or your family member and that is a disgrace.
You clearly don't have a grasp as to what happened in this case and are using FoxNews as your "fact source". I would urge you to read a bit and revisit your theory.

If I were in Zimmerman's shoes I would have called 911 and left it to those who are employed to protect us versus playing out his Captain Vigilante fantasies. Had he not followed and been perceived as threatening we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

For starters on your scenarios, one doesn't use an outside ATM at night. You can drive up to one or go inside a store to use one but why in the world would you walk up to one at night? That's pure genius..

I'm not self anti-defense, but sure as hell don't go around looking to engage or put myself into situations where I'm at risk. BTW, I'm 6'1 250 pounds so I don't worry should an occasion arise and can certainly defend myself without putting myself and others further at risk by carrying a firearm.

An interesting thought if you can allow yourself to be open to other thought, we're the only "westernized" country that deals with gun violence on a everyday basis. Internationally the US ranks dead even with Mexico for overall Gun Crime and Zimbabwe for Homicides. In case I have to spell it out further, that wouldn't be considered a good thing since Americans generally identify our way of life as superior to everywhere else.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 10:00 AM
 
670 posts, read 1,270,556 times
Reputation: 453
Yeah right buddy. I am done convincing you one track minded people of anything. I dont care how you feel or what you think. You will pay for your evil hearts and thoughts one day. That is comfort enough for me to discontinue responding to you. God bless you and may you never know the pain Trayvon's parents know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
I'll give you a good reason. My kid is slamming someones head against the ground after punching them in the face causing them to fall to the ground and my kid to continue assaulting the stranger.


Thats when I would think it was a good reason.

Last edited by NALEXAND; 03-27-2012 at 10:44 AM..
 
Old 03-27-2012, 10:03 AM
 
670 posts, read 1,270,556 times
Reputation: 453
Against being stalked and followed and then attacked by a strange man! Duh! ?? You're pretty intelligent Spring Hillian, dont play mind games with me. You know what the deal is here. You showed your true colors, its noted and its all good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
Self defense against what? Against being followed? You just go ahead and attack someone? Do you attack someone because they were following you around the supermarket?
 
Old 03-27-2012, 10:08 AM
 
670 posts, read 1,270,556 times
Reputation: 453
And I'm sure you're no angel either. None of us are. Dont you dare try to judge this child and justify his brutal murder as if it is justified because of what he had in his possession. What sins have you committed St. Spring Hill? Check that speck in your eye before you look for someone else's. We ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. Who do you think you are? Pfffft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
Background of a person means a lot. This kid was no angel. Now I understand that he was found to have several pieces of woman's jewelry in his back pack along with a flat head screwdriver. Framed with an empty bag? There was at least one witness who saw it go down.

Last edited by NALEXAND; 03-27-2012 at 10:59 AM..
 
Old 03-27-2012, 10:17 AM
 
1,458 posts, read 1,392,282 times
Reputation: 787
The discussion has become one-sided on both sides. Unfortunate.

We still don't have an official replay of the actual events, and we may never know the entire story, except the parts Zimmerman himself filled in. I don;t need to make him out to be a thuggish, racist bully to make a point either. I have no opinion of him or Trayvon, since I don't know them. We know what we read, that's about it.

The scene painted both by evidence and the reports we have so far are similar. In the end, I think it will go down as two people that made bad judgment calls. Zimmerman shouldn't have tried to play cop, and Trayvon May have, in fact, overreacted. We'll apparently never know that part.

Nobody saw the actual shooting either, at least I've not read anything where these supposed eye witnesses say the shooting. I'm still surprised that Zimmerman could have been the one howling, since it stopped immediately after the gunshot was heard.

But unless someone steps forward, or there's video, we will never know what prompted Zimmerman to shoot. Either Trayvon was out of control crazy, or perhaps Zimmerman just freaked and shot him. All we have now is Zimmerman's statement, nothing else.

It's not fair to continually keep posting either outright lies, conjecture, or hyperbole to make either Zimmerman or Martin look good or bad. Unfortunately, even the media has aided this BS coverage. But the worrisome trend right now is how Zimmerman is being treated. Imagine what type of society we've become if the shooting was just? If it wasn't, the proper steps have been taken to address that.

The harm to society continues. The people that thrive on being significant in events like this have crawled out of the woodwork once again, sending civilized society back to the dark ages.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 16,009,290 times
Reputation: 6085
I think I have a much better grasp as to what happened, based on the little information released. I get my news from many sources and weigh the known facts before I spout off a position as apparently a lot of people have.

Zimmerman DID call 911. Zimmerman was acting as a citizen.
He was acting as a neighborhood watch member. He did report suspicious activity. He kept on an eye on the subject of his concern.
Subject of Concern apparently felt "disrespected" and took action against the person following him. The person who was being attacked exercised his rights and shot his assailant.

I use an ATM whenever or wherever I feel like it. Why should I have to restrict my activities due to a criminal element?

As a neighborhood watch person, you sometimes find yourself witnessing criminal activity. Report. Observe. That is what Zimmerman was doing. Reporting and observing. As I posted before, I am quite sure that he did not walk up to this kid, pull out his gun and shoot him at close range. There had to be a reason for Zimmerman to use deadly force and now we are finding out what that reason was. To wit: having ones head smashed against the ground.

Most criminals are armed one way or another. Gun, knife, tire iron, screwdriver, what ever. I am a big fella too. I don't put myself in situations that may be harmful to me either, but unfortunately, criminals do not worry about if they are in a situation that could be harmful. Just because you may be in a "safe area" it does not make you immune to the thoughts and desires of a criminal.

I wonder if you can allow yourself to be open to other thought as well.

Yes, indeed, Americans generally identify our way of life as superior to everywhere else, though they are not correct in that assumption.
Many countries offer a better quality of life compared to the U.S.

In America though, we have a huge problem with those who have and those who don't. If you have a nice new Ipod, there are people out there who will kill you for it. I'd like to have my Ipod and
would certainly kill someone for trying to violate my right to have that Ipod.

The kid is dead because Zimmerman had "been perceived as threatening". That does not give you the right to attack the person whom you "perceive as threatening"

I too am a big guy. It does not make me any less vulnerable to a criminal attacking me. No one has the right to attack another.
Since this is the real world, not everyone abides by that fact.
If one must use deadly force, or any force at all, to defend against an attack then so be it.



quote.....
You clearly don't have a grasp as to what happened in this case and are using FoxNews as your "fact source". I would urge you to read a bit and revisit your theory.

If I were in Zimmerman's shoes I would have called 911 and left it to those who are employed to protect us versus playing out his Captain Vigilante fantasies. Had he not followed and been perceived as threatening we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

For starters on your scenarios, one doesn't use an outside ATM at night. You can drive up to one or go inside a store to use one but why in the world would you walk up to one at night? That's pure genius..

I'm not self anti-defense,BTW, I'm 6'1 250 pounds so I don't worry should an occasion arise and can certainly defend myself without putting myself and others further at risk by carrying a firearm.

An interesting thought if you can allow yourself to be open to other thought, we're the only "westernized" country that deals with gun violence on a everyday basis. Internationally the US ranks dead even with Mexico for overall Gun Crime and Zimbabwe for Homicides. In case I have to spell it out further, that wouldn't be considered a good thing since Americans generally identify our way of life as superior to everywhere else. [/quote]
 
Old 03-27-2012, 10:36 AM
 
7,099 posts, read 8,868,469 times
Reputation: 6370
One thing for sure, we need to discuss racism. Out true color are shining through.

Fact zimmerman should not had pursued martin. Zimmerman used a racial slur to describe martin automatically pulls the race card. The media didnt do it zimmerman did. Zimmerman wasnt responsible as a neighborhood watchman by pursueing the teenager he knew the rules of being the captain of the group and didnt follow through after being advised not to. If zimmerman had done whats right, martin wouldnt have fought him.

If people cant see this then i leave it alone. We can pull dirt on martin suspension. We can talk about zimmermans black friends and everything else. It doesnt change the fact that an adult in a leadership position on the neighborhood watch made a poor decision and ending up committing murder possibly hate crime against a minor and payday is coming.
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