[Dakster]

So I wanted to start a new thread in the Florida Forum to discuss what Floridians think of Citizens Insurance. Especially some new changes that are being discussed.

There was an article in the Miami Herald about sinkhole coverage issues and that now Citizens is trying to make itself run like Peoples Trust. TALLAHASSEE: Families battle Citizens over delayed progress on sinkhole claims - Florida - MiamiHerald.com

If you are not aware People's Trust you have to agree to use their contractor that they pick. You have very little decision making in how they fix your property and if they don't do a good (or adequate job) People's trust is still off the hook. They don't guarantee any of the work for any length of time. At least in the Auto Insurance industry if you use their body shop, the company guarantees the work. BTW, I am not knocking this model, it is a LOT cheaper than Citizens and you HAVE a choice whether to accept this insurance or not.

So if this passes, on top of our skyrocketing home owners insurance rates - which BTW, my HO insurance costs me more a month than my Mortgage does now. We now have to contend with THEIR chosen contractor and have no say in how they fix the property.

[Spring Hillian]

Thank your fellow Floridians who hired sinkhole repair companies that found sinkhole activity (surprise surprise) and then those people collected the cash from Citizens and did nothing about their "sinkhole" or those who got kick backs from the sinkhole repair company if they did have the work done.

Citizens is now covering itself to the max so they dont get screwed again.

I think a lot of the people involved in this problem (not all) are coming into the sinkhole claim game late and they arent going to get their way. They are going to have to use the company Citizens authorizes.

Citizens is telling people to take the money and lets get the work started. They will pay over policy limits if necessary. This takes the jingle of cash in the homeowners pocket away.


I'm not sure any company is going to guarantee a sinkhole repair due to their nature. You could fix one spot today and have another spot open up tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Dakster

So I wanted to start a new thread in the Florida Forum to discuss what Floridians think of Citizens Insurance. Especially some new changes that are being discussed.

There was an article in the Miami Herald about sinkhole coverage issues and that now Citizens is trying to make itself run like Peoples Trust. TALLAHASSEE: Families battle Citizens over delayed progress on sinkhole claims - Florida - MiamiHerald.com

If you are not aware People's Trust you have to agree to use their contractor that they pick. You have very little decision making in how they fix your property and if they don't do a good (or adequate job) People's trust is still off the hook. They don't guarantee any of the work for any length of time. At least in the Auto Insurance industry if you use their body shop, the company guarantees the work. BTW, I am not knocking this model, it is a LOT cheaper than Citizens and you HAVE a choice whether to accept this insurance or not.

So if this passes, on top of our skyrocketing home owners insurance rates - which BTW, my HO insurance costs me more a month than my Mortgage does now. We now have to contend with THEIR chosen contractor and have no say in how they fix the property.

[Dakster]

They are not doing this for just sinkholes. I understand the sink hole issue is sticky. How about going after the people that file fraudulent claims then? FWIW, my area doesn't typically have sink holes and I don't have sink hole coverage. Actually, I tried to get it as it was $50. I figured it would at least give me some protection in that Citizens couldn't deny my claim because they said it was a sinkhole when a hurricane hits and the water creates a hole after my house is blown away.

You laugh, but I we had roof damage after a storm and the water wrecked the walls and the floor. The insurance company I had at the time (not citizens) said it was flood- until I reminded them I also have Flood insurance so put it through Flood. Once they realized that wasn't going to fly they paid the claim. And the adjuster was adamant that the floor damage was flood. I had no standing water inside the the house and if my house flooded several house down the street would have been totaled as I am a lot higher up than they are.

This isn't going to be just for sink holes, it is going to be the norm for all repairs... If you want to pick the company that does the work at least stand behind it. They needs to be some sort of dispute resolution program for shoddy work.

If I had a choice to NOT have insurance I wouldn't. But you can't have a mortgage without insurance. And no one else writes policies but citizens in my area. So until I move I am stuck.

[bigh110]

Slowly but surely homes all along the Florida coast will become all cash purchases. This will surely drive their prices/market value down. there have been quite a few real estate sales in the Florida keys that have been canceled due to exorbitant insurance costs. The sale falls through and the existing mortgage free home owners are stuck in their homes waiting for a cash buyer. Once a buyer who needs to obtain a mortgage gets their FEMA flood and citizens windstorm quotes for $20,000 plus a year they realize they can't afford the house. The home sale falls through not because the buyer wasn't qualified or didn't have the required 20% down. its because they cant afford $800 to $2400 additional monthly insurance costs in addition to the monthly mortgage and real estate taxes! It leaves the playing fields uneven so to speak as deep pocket developers/rich guys can afford to buy properties for cash and not carry insurance. the middle class working man can't because of the high insurance costs to go along with the mortgage.
In the years to come I expect to see an exodus of mortgage holding homeowners in my keys neighborhood leave as the insurance rates rise. They will sell at a lower price to a cash buyer because they cant afford their mortgage and insurance. The developer will remove the older existing structure/home and rebuild an new structure/home to today's hurricane buliding codes. The new structure/home will have very low insurance costs. The developer than sells the new house for a tidy profit. Because of the low insurance costs a non cash buyer needing a mortgage will now be able to afford the mortgage/taxes/insurance costs.
I also expect lot of new foreclosures for many existing fixed income homeowners with pre 2001 built homes in all coastal areas in Florida with a mortgage. These homeowners barely able to pay their exiting mortgage and insurance costs will not be able to afford the increase in their insurance costs and unable to sell it the bank takes the house.

Flood rate hikes hurting badly | Business | KeysNet

[Dakster]

bigh110 - I couldn't have made that point better myself. I was wondering how it was affecting the Keys.

It actually makes it so that the 'little guy' that even pays off his mortgage has to make the choice of NOT having insurance which means the retirement/nest egg is very exposed. Insurance lobby even has a clause that you cannot "under insure" your property, so if you own it outright and it is valued at $400k, you have to carry $400k or nothing. You couldn't insure it for $200k as an example.

[Songbird42]

What about over insured, my property is insured for 230,000 yet its value occuring to tax rolls, is 84,000......I have had a claim with Citizens since 2010, they are saying they will not pay my claim, because I refuse to cash the check for inside repairs, they sent me a check for nearly nothing, when I got estitmates, they went from 39,000 to 70,000 for inside repairs, their report states that my SouthWest wall will collaspe if they start pumping in the area (I have that in black and white) why would I agree to any repairs if the wall taking my bedroom and lani, with it. I spent the money and got another engineers report, they said the only way to go is with underpinning, Citizens refuses. This has been a nightmare for me, I've gotten shingles from the stress, my sugars are all over the place, finally I got a date for mediation in the coming month and they want me to travel to South Florida, for their convenience, they said there is only two court reports that are available and they are in South Florida, I don't drive and I told them that, plus I told them the lawsuit was filed in Hernando Cty, mediation should be in Hernando Cty, I already know that the offer they will extend to me will be not to nothing, 4 1/2 yrs of grief.......yet Citizens has 7 billion dollars in reserve because there were no hurricanes for the last 8 yrs. There are 1,800 families all suiing Citizens, and most of us have the same problems, they won't agree to fix our properties the right way.........

[Dakster]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Citizens. They keep trying to force me up my policy amount as well. I'm surprised there is a surplus and that the higher ups haven't figured out a way to get that for themselves. Read up on how much the higher ups at Citizens make.

Good luck with your mediation hearing, which by the way, if you lose, you can still go to court. There is nothing saying you have to go to mediation. (as long as this is the state sponsored mediation). It is only binding on Citizens. If you have an attorney, that person will just have to go for you. If they invoked Appraisal process, that is different story.

Check with your attorney, but in HO loss claims they have to pay you what they agree they owe you and you litigate over any disagreements. I wen thru this for several years after Katrina and Wilma, but with another company. UNLESS, they are forcing you to sign a release to get it, which is why I say to check with your attorney. EVEN if you find additional damage, typically, you can't go back and collect if you take the mediation results. There are some limited exceptions though.

** Please don't act on advice given in a blog -- I am not an attorney or in the insurance business - just giving you my experiences and perceptions based on my actual dealings, which may or may not be the same set of circumstances in your case **

[hurricaneMan1992]

I have pretty much decided not to buy property in Florida until homeowner's insurance stabilizes--as in 5% or less annual increases instead of 15-50% with increasing deductibles. Buy new construction, I have to drive 40 minutes to go anywhere and it's likely to be in a sinkhole area, or Citizens will change their wind mitigation standards, and when "the big one" hits you might well get a bill (hurricane assessment) instead of a check, ect, ect. I'm sure I'll be waiting a long, long time. But meanwhile it's worth it to look at property out of State as an investment which I can eventually retire in. Utah and Idaho look pretty interesting, for example, but not jumping on a bandwagon like NC has become.

[Dakster]

I agree HurricaneMan1992...

Just when you think you got it figured out, they change the rules. I remember people spending all kinds of money to get shutters for a discount and then they removed most of the discounts. They also did that with Flood. They redrew the Flood plain maps.

[Spring Hillian]

Flood insurance is a federal government program. The flood maps are federal government.

Citizens has not been a problem with me, maybe because I've had no claims for the 7 years Ive been with them. If you have an insurance agent who is willing to work, you can save a lot of $ on your HOI. I have it down to just under $1,000 a year, replacement value on my stuff, 2 pct hurricane deductible, fire, theft, liability. If you dont want to pay high flood insurance bills, dont buy a house in a flood zone.
If you have and old roof on your house, replace it. if you have old single pane windows, replace them.
if your house was built before the building codes changed have your roof reinforced with hurricane straps. People have to take some responsibility for their property instead of hoping the insurance company is going to take care of it all in the event of a disaster. With improvements you get peace of mind as well as an abode that will hold up better in a hurricane, wind storm, etc.

Originally Posted by Dakster

I agree HurricaneMan1992...

Just when you think you got it figured out, they change the rules. I remember people spending all kinds of money to get shutters for a discount and then they removed most of the discounts. They also did that with Flood. They redrew the Flood plain maps.