[jambo101]

Originally Posted by bbronston

Do you ever READ what other people post? Last time...the "scientific proof" (aka temperature readings) are one thing. The way the numbers are then used, analyzed, interpreted, and utilized is where the "proof" becomes subjective. You are the one who claimed that the "right wing" (whatever that is supposed to mean) doesn't believe that global warming isn't real. All I am telling you is that there is a big difference between the data itself and the meaning of the data, and it is the meaning of the data IF ANY that is being contended. Ever wonder why it was about "global warming" originally and then "climate change" later? It was because the data fluctuates and the "global warming" hucksters were being shown for what they were.

In September this year, there was an increase of 533,000 square miles of Arctic ocean covered in ice compared to the same time the year before. That was an increase of 29%. Does that mean anything? It's "scientific" data. Global cooling? Who knows....and that is the point!

For years, we were told that the polar bear population was shrinking because of global warming yet, over the summer, I recall reading that researchers couldn't honestly determine if populations were where they were because of global warming or if they were where they were because that was the level of population that was supported naturally. I also recall that the were going up in places where the sea ice was going down. Does that mean anything? Well, it means you can't believe everything you hear and read for one thing.

Science is knowledge but there is science, there is junk science, and there is science that is used to further political agendas. Al Gore's inconvenient whatever is a perfect example of using science for the latter two and your comments, which continue to mischaracterize the truth, are another.

Yeah i'm reading your posts,you dont seem to be reading my links.
Do i really have to explain what rightwing means?
Global warming hucksters? are you referring here to all the climatologists and related scientists who have studied the issue extensively and almost unanimously agree the Earth is warming up.
As for your increased ice in the Artic ocean?, Theres so much ice melting the real possibility exits to use the Northwest passage as a seasonal shipping route.Northwest Passage crossed by first cargo ship, the Nordic Orion, heralding new era of Arctic commercial activity | National Post
Junk science? That would be opinions dressed up to look like facts, real scientists dont use this method of coming to conclusions.
Mischaracterize the truth? i'm still waiting for you to tell me what that truth is..

http://www.ucsusa.org/ssi/climate-ch...sensus-on.html

As said before we can go round and round on this issue, ultimately as we arent climatologists we can only read or listen to what is offered and come to our own opinions.
Obviously our opinions differ..

[bbronston]

I see you were up very late (or early) writing this and I didn't mean to upset you, if that is the case. I am a skeptic, by nature, and when I see warnings of global cooling, then warming, then a mini-ice age, then more warming during my adult life, let's just say that my opinion on "scientific evidence" is somewhat dubious. I can also think of dozens of other examples, not related to this, where scientific assessments and predictions have been wrong or have gone back and forth over the years. My morning eggs being an example. You have noted that there are some scientists who have questioned the findings you put so much faith in and that is as it should be because there are modes and methodologies at play here and these can account for differing opinions. You don't have to agree, if you don't want, but you owe it to yourself to at least consider the dissenting scientific views. Try these articles by this scientist and see if there is any merit to his concerns:
Articles: S. Fred Singer Archives

[HarryWho?]

Pick a different guy. I'm not saying there's nothing to his skepticism, but one who is funded by the oil and tobacco companies has to be a little biased.

[jambo101]

I'm not upset and am enjoying our conversations, i usually go to bed around 7pm thus the reason many of my posts are very early in the morning as i'm usually up by 2am.
As for the topic at hand i see opinion from both sides of the issue but IMO most of the facts i'm reading are coming from a very large % of the scientific community, as i'm not a climatologist i can only form a conclusion and put out my opinion on the issue,that opinion is its warming up,Whether that is from human activity hasnt been conclusively proven however i do wonder if their is any consequence to man using 100 million barrels of oil everyday worldwide.

[bbronston]

Originally Posted by jambo101

I'm not upset and am enjoying our conversations, i usually go to bed around 7pm thus the reason many of my posts are very early in the morning as i'm usually up by 2am.
As for the topic at hand i see opinion from both sides of the issue but IMO most of the facts i'm reading are coming from a very large % of the scientific community, as i'm not a climatologist i can only form a conclusion and put out my opinion on the issue,that opinion is its warming up,Whether that is from human activity hasnt been conclusively proven however i do wonder if their is any consequence to man using 100 million barrels of oil everyday worldwide.

See? We agree on that. I still think we should do what we can to assure clean air and water, and I'm all for better efficiencies. I'm not a climatologist either but I have some physics, chem, bio, astronomy, oceanography, and meteorology classes associated with my degree. OTOH, I haven't kept up with it much except to know enough that science is never as good as it seems and interpretations of data are ever-changing, partly because of better understanding but also because scientific studies are not immune to the ravages of political whim and funding influences. Plus, most academicians are very liberal and, while data can be blinded, interpretations frequently reflect biases.

[bbronston]

...but have you heard about the ship that is stuck in the ice in Antarctica? Two other ships got stuck trying to rescue them. The stuck ship? Carrying scientists studying the effects of climate change!