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Tampa to me is a high quality of life, good place to live, work, play and raise a family with less over top top behavior like most decent sized cities in the rest of the country be it Denver, Pittsburgh, Austin or Charlotte to name just a few. I am glad we still have a few larger cities in FL still left like that. I like you could care less for living near the Vegas Strip or South Beach. You know the old saying '..maybe a good place to visit BUT..."
Tampa is a nice place to visit, but to live yeah your right..that old saying...
What area of Florida you choose to live in depends on what lifestyle you want. Both the Tampa area and South Florida are pretty busy, hustle and bustle large cities. Unless you mean the Keys, which are the exact opposite but probably not what you are referring to by South Florida.
Insurance is definitely more expensive here than most other places. Not just car insurance but also home insurance. Florida is kind of misleading when it comes to cost. On the surface it looks cheaper than California, we have lower housing costs and no state income tax. But insurance and property taxes are high (not sure if higher than California though) and our wages are much lower, generally speaking, than many other places especially California where people make more to offset the higher cost of living.
BTW what is making you want to move to Florida? I'm thinking about moving from here to California myself (the bay area) as I have more family there and I feel that there are more opportunities in California. Love the natural beauty of the state and the larger than life feel.
It amazes me how many people think Florida, at least South Florida is a cheap place to live. Often they forget that compensation is almost always relative, rents in SF are high, $1300+ for a nice 1 bedroom apt. There are places in the state that have a lower COL, but often the salaries are again relative. From people I know that live in the SF Bay Area and the adjacent area, car insurance at least mine would be a lot less there.
There are a lot more opportunities in the SF Bay Area, if your in the STEM field it's a good move if you can stomach the COL and lack of housing that is affordable to buy or rent. You can get more for your money here but if the job sucks and there are lack of opportunity, what good is a house?
I've lived in both CA and FL, and I vastly prefer CA to FL for a few reasons.
CA has a much more robust, diversified economy than FL. Hell, even San Diego, which is generally regarded as the toughest economy of the major CA metro areas, has a stronger economy than just about anywhere in FL, especially for educated professionals. CA has a larger corporate presence than FL--more corporate HQ's and regional offices, office parks, etc. Also, there's a stronger entrepreneurial spirit and a more competitive ethos in CA than in FL. A lot more innovation takes place in CA compared to FL and most places, for that matter. Oh yeah--way better higher educational offerings in CA, too (i.e., Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, USC, et al.).
Even though CA has a much higher COL than FL on average, wages and salaries are much more proportional to COL. I’ve met professionals that have relocated to CA from FL for this very reason alone! What good is that larger home in FL if your salary isn't enough to cover the taxes, insurance, and utilities? All of which, I might add, are very expensive. Also, if you launch your career in CA, you will have tremendous negotiating/bargaining power with regard to your salary for the rest of your career, especially if you chose to eventually move on to a place with lower salaries. FL, OTOH--not so much.
While lacking the lush subtropical vegetation and pristine beaches of FL, the scenery of CA is vastly superior to the scenery of FL, mostly due to the varied topography. FL is as flat as a pancake. Hiking, biking, surfing, skiing, etc. are all better in CA and help make it a much more outdoor-oriented place. Besides the beach and maybe boating/fishing, the population of FL is not very outdoorsy. People tend to be heavier and less health-conscious in FL, too.
On a final note, people in CA are much more pleasant and easier to live around than people in FL, which is home to the rudest, angriest, most aggressive people in the entire nation, IMO. There are definitely more way more ghetto thugs, wannabe rednecks, and deviant/creepy/bizarre types in FL, too. CA has a West Coast vibe: very casual; polite; tolerant, even if not approving; and generally aloof, but pleasant if engaged. By comparison, FL has a very strange vibe--East Coast/Caribbean/Latin American with some Southern undertones. Overall, CA is just a more pleasant, laid-back place to live than FL, despite having worse traffic, congestion, and pollution.
You have a good perspective for the OP as you have lived in South Florida and in LA for many years. Wonder if living through this Michigan winter now that you are back north will change your views at all
No it did not change my perspective of FL. I don't care for winter at all but still would rather live in MI then FL. That being said if cost of living was not an issue I would love to live in a suburb again of CA. So I do understand the OP and the cost of living and wanting to move. I do wonder why when there is no specific job transfer you pick FL. I am not trying to bash FL because I understand some people love the way of life. For a family I do feel there are other states that are more affordable and family friendly. I think some who move from CA to FL do so cause of warm weather but coming from CA it is going to be a hard adjustment because even when it was 100 in CA it never felt as hot and stuffy as FL. I am always cold and FL humidity was so horrible and even inside you feel damp.
On a side note on the FL forums the replies are so argumentative. What I feel is that people forget everyone is different and has a different situation. So just because you hate FL or had a bad time does not mean it will be the same for others.
OP why not come back to FL for a visit and spend some time in Tampa and South FL to get a better feel. I know you said you drove around but why not stop and see some apartments and visit places you would go to when you live in a place. I remember when I was going to move people suggested doing your everyday things not live like you are on a vacation. You cant do this with every aspect but getting a feel for the area can help and what apartments/homes are like in each area. Also really research schools and possibly activities for your kids.
I've lived in both CA and FL, and I vastly prefer CA to FL for a few reasons.
CA has a much more robust, diversified economy than FL. Hell, even San Diego, which is generally regarded as the toughest economy of the major CA metro areas, has a stronger economy than just about anywhere in FL, especially for educated professionals. CA has a larger corporate presence than FL--more corporate HQ's and regional offices, office parks, etc. Also, there's a stronger entrepreneurial spirit and a more competitive ethos in CA than in FL. A lot more innovation takes place in CA compared to FL and most places, for that matter. Oh yeah--way better higher educational offerings in CA, too (i.e., Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, USC, et al.).
Even though CA has a much higher COL than FL on average, wages and salaries are much more proportional to COL. I’ve met professionals that have relocated to CA from FL for this very reason alone! What good is that larger home in FL if your salary isn't enough to cover the taxes, insurance, and utilities? All of which, I might add, are very expensive. Also, if you launch your career in CA, you will have tremendous negotiating/bargaining power with regard to your salary for the rest of your career, especially if you chose to eventually move on to a place with lower salaries. FL, OTOH--not so much.
While lacking the lush subtropical vegetation and pristine beaches of FL, the scenery of CA is vastly superior to the scenery of FL, mostly due to the varied topography. FL is as flat as a pancake. Hiking, biking, surfing, skiing, etc. are all better in CA and help make it a much more outdoor-oriented place. Besides the beach and maybe boating/fishing, the population of FL is not very outdoorsy. People tend to be heavier and less health-conscious in FL, too.
On a final note, people in CA are much more pleasant and easier to live around than people in FL, which is home to the rudest, angriest, most aggressive people in the entire nation, IMO. There are definitely more way more ghetto thugs, wannabe rednecks, and deviant/creepy/bizarre types in FL, too. CA has a West Coast vibe: very casual; polite; tolerant, even if not approving; and generally aloof, but pleasant if engaged. By comparison, FL has a very strange vibe--East Coast/Caribbean/Latin American with some Southern undertones. Overall, CA is just a more pleasant, laid-back place to live than FL, despite having worse traffic, congestion, and pollution.
Great post...I am waiting to see the onslaught of Pollyanna's who will try to prove you wrong.
Not that I hate Florida, I have lived here for over 20+ years, it's been good to me financially and career-wise...was a fun ride, it's just that it's time to move on. Let someone else have a go at it though I am doubtful my firm will fill my position quickly after I leave, because I know the salary offer will be below other metro markets and the COL here is pushing the edge. It's not so cheap like it was when I first moved here, God was it affordable I was bankrolling money in those days, paid off my house in 5 years, bought an investment property pre 2000ish housing boom and rent it out, I already see I will sell that home for 3 times what I paid for it.
I've lived in both CA and FL, and I vastly prefer CA to FL for a few reasons.
CA has a much more robust, diversified economy than FL. Hell, even San Diego, which is generally regarded as the toughest economy of the major CA metro areas, has a stronger economy than just about anywhere in FL, especially for educated professionals. CA has a larger corporate presence than FL--more corporate HQ's and regional offices, office parks, etc. Also, there's a stronger entrepreneurial spirit and a more competitive ethos in CA than in FL. A lot more innovation takes place in CA compared to FL and most places, for that matter. Oh yeah--way better higher educational offerings in CA, too (i.e., Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, USC, et al.).
Even though CA has a much higher COL than FL on average, wages and salaries are much more proportional to COL. I’ve met professionals that have relocated to CA from FL for this very reason alone! What good is that larger home in FL if your salary isn't enough to cover the taxes, insurance, and utilities? All of which, I might add, are very expensive. Also, if you launch your career in CA, you will have tremendous negotiating/bargaining power with regard to your salary for the rest of your career, especially if you chose to eventually move on to a place with lower salaries. FL, OTOH--not so much.
While lacking the lush subtropical vegetation and pristine beaches of FL, the scenery of CA is vastly superior to the scenery of FL, mostly due to the varied topography. FL is as flat as a pancake. Hiking, biking, surfing, skiing, etc. are all better in CA and help make it a much more outdoor-oriented place. Besides the beach and maybe boating/fishing, the population of FL is not very outdoorsy. People tend to be heavier and less health-conscious in FL, too.
On a final note, people in CA are much more pleasant and easier to live around than people in FL, which is home to the rudest, angriest, most aggressive people in the entire nation, IMO. There are definitely more way more ghetto thugs, wannabe rednecks, and deviant/creepy/bizarre types in FL, too. CA has a West Coast vibe: very casual; polite; tolerant, even if not approving; and generally aloof, but pleasant if engaged. By comparison, FL has a very strange vibe--East Coast/Caribbean/Latin American with some Southern undertones. Overall, CA is just a more pleasant, laid-back place to live than FL, despite having worse traffic, congestion, and pollution.
This is a fantastic post and is spot-on.
I couldn't agree more with literally everything you said.
I live in Florida, however am fortunate enough to work remotely for a company based in California, so I travel to Ca often. You put into words exactly what I've come to realize about FL. You nailed it.
It amazes me how many people think Florida, at least South Florida is a cheap place to live. Often they forget that compensation is almost always relative, rents in SF are high, $1300+ for a nice 1 bedroom apt. There are places in the state that have a lower COL, but often the salaries are again relative. From people I know that live in the SF Bay Area and the adjacent area, car insurance at least mine would be a lot less there.
There are a lot more opportunities in the SF Bay Area, if your in the STEM field it's a good move if you can stomach the COL and lack of housing that is affordable to buy or rent. You can get more for your money here but if the job sucks and there are lack of opportunity, what good is a house?
OUR RENT in Boca was 2400 a month for a 3 bedroom 3 bath townhome with a 2 car garage...rent went up about 100 a month each year...now my place is renting for 2550 and up....We paid more because of the location and the schools I get it, but just insane...Im paying alot less than that for a new construction 3 bedroom right now here in Jersey...And Yes THX your regarding the Salaries..
My Car Insurance before my son was driving with perfect driving record was 5500 a year I don't even pay that in NJ with 3 new cars and an 19 yr old on my policy....Food was also very Expensive....Now there are other parts of Florida that YES are reasonable and less expensive, However South Florida is Not cheap....
A few other things I forget to add in my previous post:
Unlike FL, the majority of transplants who move to CA from other states are educated, which keeps the COL high and, in turn, the riffraff out. Because of its lower COL in addition to its warm climate, FL tends to attract way more problem people than CA. This isn't a new phenomenon either--Florida has been attracting problem people, mainly from the Northeast and Great Lakes region, for decades. Additionally, many immigrants to CA are well-educated (e.g., lots of East Asian and Indian immigrants) whereas many immigrants to FL are from third-world countries and often quite poor. However, FL is a service-oriented economy, hence the lower COL and less affluent transplants/immigrants. I will attest to the fact that the middle class in FL is very small, smaller than any other place I've lived. This is very evident with regard to all of the college tuition breaks and incentives (e.g., Bright Futures, FL Prepaid, etc.). I suppose that's the result of a service-oriented economy with few well-paying jobs in the professional services sector. Overall, the standard of living in CA is much higher.
With many more problem people, it's no wonder FL runs the gamut of strange and unusual crimes in the US. People in FL tend to be much more deviant and bizarre, on average, than people in CA. Even though CA is often touted as the "land of fruits and nuts," you still don't hear about as many creepy, unusual, or just plain bizarre crimes in CA as you do in FL, and CA is home to twice as many people as FL! Also, people in CA often maintain a semblance of normalcy in daily interactions, which is quite refreshing if you're coming from FL, especially South FL.
Drivers are much less aggressive in CA than FL, too. Thus, auto insurance is much less expensive in CA. When I moved from South FL to Southern CA, my auto insurance dropped by $2,500/year! Auto insurance is simply through the roof in FL, especially South FL, mostly due to white-haired retirees and snowbirds; tourists who don't know their way around town; uninsured motorists; people from lawless third-world countries who don't take the time to learn the rules of the road in the US; and transplanted New Yorkers in their 40's and 50's who have never even operated a motor vehicle before moving down and drive like 16-year-old boys. FWIW, there are some auto insurance companies that don't even write policies for residents of Miami-Dade County anymore! And don't even get me started on homeowners insurance and property taxes in FL, which are also through the roof--so much for no state income tax.
People in FL are similar to people in the Northeast--they tend to have a preoccupation with being "tough," whether that be in form of being shrewd, ghetto, ornery, anti-intellectual, or some other type of "get-outta-my-way" mentality. Also, people in FL, specifically South FL, are always trying to one-up each other--live in a bigger home, have a hotter wife, drive a more expensive car, beat you to the stoplight, cut you off in traffic at the last minute without using turn signals, etc. This pervasive mentality can be found at all levels of the socioeconomic ladder, which is one of the main reasons for the rude, pushy behavior; aggressive driving; etc.
Identity fraud is rampant in Florida. For example, you are statistically more likely to become a victim of identity fraud in South Florida (Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-West Palm Beach) than in any other metro area in the entire country. I'd rather not embellish further since I was almost a victim of identity fraud while living there.
Compared to FL, CA is a very "come as you are" type of place. Although people move to both states to reinvent themselves, I think CA is a better place to do that than FL because it has a more robust, diversified economy; significantly better higher educational offerings; and a more accepting, progressive populace. For those reasons alone, CA is a better place to live as a young person.
Also, I think CA is a more transplant-friendly place than FL, where you still have some natives (mostly African-American in the southern half of the state and both white and African-American in the northern half) who still harbor some, shall we say, "reservations" about people from "up North." Generally speaking, people in FL are, by no means, akin to people in, say, GA or NC in that regard, but you do come across folks bearing these sentiments every once in a while. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to deal with this ever again. On a similar note, FL suffers from much more of a regional identity crisis than CA, which is undeniably West Coast, and I think that contributes to the overall dysfunctionality of the place.
In FL, competition for low-wage, unskilled jobs is fierce. Also, it's not the norm to be offered health benefits through your employer in FL as it is in just about every other state. Surprisingly, many office workers in FL have no health insurance. In most states (CA, NY, TX, etc.), it's a given that health insurance is offered, especially in an office-type setting. Even more disturbing, CNA's--who work with the sick and elderly and subject themselves to illness every day in hospitals and nursing homes--have no health insurance. I don't anticipate this changing with the employer mandate of the Affordable Care Act since many businesses in FL employ fewer than 50 people.
On a final note, as a white male, I found FL to be a rather difficult place to live--lots of reverse racism and racial strife, tons of angry minorities (and angry people in general), lots of thuggish types, etc. FL is a very ghetto place, which IMO, makes it an especially lousy place to raise a family. The creepy/bizarre criminal element in addition to the hordes of shady transients from the world over detract from the area's family-friendless as well. There isn't anything like southern Orange County, northern San Diego County, or Thousand Oaks in FL.
A few other things I forget to add in my previous post:
Unlike FL, the majority of transplants who move to CA from other states are educated, which keeps the COL high and, in turn, the riffraff out. Because of its lower COL in addition to its warm climate, FL tends to attract way more problem people than CA. This isn't a new phenomenon either--Florida has been attracting problem people, mainly from the Northeast and Great Lakes region, for decades. Additionally, many immigrants to CA are well-educated (e.g., lots of East Asian and Indian immigrants) whereas many immigrants to FL are from third-world countries and often quite poor. However, FL is a service-oriented economy, hence the lower COL and less affluent transplants/immigrants. I will attest to the fact that the middle class in FL is very small, smaller than any other place I've lived. This is very evident with regard to all of the college tuition breaks and incentives (e.g., Bright Futures, FL Prepaid, etc.). I suppose that's the result of a service-oriented economy with few well-paying jobs in the professional services sector. Overall, the standard of living in CA is much higher.
With many more problem people, it's no wonder FL runs the gamut of strange and unusual crimes in the US. People in FL tend to be much more deviant and bizarre, on average, than people in CA. Even though CA is often touted as the "land of fruits and nuts," you still don't hear about as many creepy, unusual, or just plain bizarre crimes in CA as you do in FL, and CA is home to twice as many people as FL! Also, people in CA often maintain a semblance of normalcy in daily interactions, which is quite refreshing if you're coming from FL, especially South FL.
Drivers are much less aggressive in CA than FL, too. Thus, auto insurance is much less expensive in CA. When I moved from South FL to Southern CA, my auto insurance dropped by $2,500/year! Auto insurance is simply through the roof in FL, especially South FL, mostly due to white-haired retirees and snowbirds; tourists who don't know their way around town; uninsured motorists; people from lawless third-world countries who don't take the time to learn the rules of the road in the US; and transplanted New Yorkers in their 40's and 50's who have never even operated a motor vehicle before moving down and drive like 16-year-old boys. FWIW, there are some auto insurance companies that don't even write policies for residents of Miami-Dade County anymore! And don't even get me started on homeowners insurance and property taxes in FL, which are also through the roof--so much for no state income tax.
People in FL are similar to people in the Northeast--they tend to have a preoccupation with being "tough," whether that be in form of being shrewd, ghetto, ornery, anti-intellectual, or some other type of "get-outta-my-way" mentality. Also, people in FL, specifically South FL, are always trying to one-up each other--live in a bigger home, have a hotter wife, drive a more expensive car, beat you to the stoplight, cut you off in traffic at the last minute without using turn signals, etc. This pervasive mentality can be found at all levels of the socioeconomic ladder, which is one of the main reasons for the rude, pushy behavior; aggressive driving; etc.
Identity fraud is rampant in Florida. For example, you are statistically more likely to become a victim of identity fraud in South Florida (Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-West Palm Beach) than in any other metro area in the entire country. I'd rather not embellish further since I was almost a victim of identity fraud while living there.
Compared to FL, CA is a very "come as you are" type of place. Although people move to both states to reinvent themselves, I think CA is a better place to do that than FL because it has a more robust, diversified economy; significantly better higher educational offerings; and a more accepting, progressive populace. For those reasons alone, CA is a better place to live as a young person.
Also, I think CA is a more transplant-friendly place than FL, where you still have some natives (mostly African-American in the southern half of the state and both white and African-American in the northern half) who still harbor some, shall we say, "reservations" about people from "up North." Generally speaking, people in FL are, by no means, akin to people in, say, GA or NC in that regard, but you do come across folks bearing these sentiments every once in a while. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to deal with this ever again. On a similar note, FL suffers from much more of a regional identity crisis than CA, which is undeniably West Coast, and I think that contributes to the overall dysfunctionality of the place.
In FL, competition for low-wage, unskilled jobs is fierce. Also, it's not the norm to be offered health benefits through your employer in FL as it is in just about every other state. Surprisingly, many office workers in FL have no health insurance. In most states (CA, NY, TX, etc.), it's a given that health insurance is offered, especially in an office-type setting. Even more disturbing, CNA's--who work with the sick and elderly and subject themselves to illness every day in hospitals and nursing homes--have no health insurance. I don't anticipate this changing with the employer mandate of the Affordable Care Act since many businesses in FL employ fewer than 50 people.
On a final note, as a white male, I found FL to be a rather difficult place to live--lots of reverse racism and racial strife, tons of angry minorities (and angry people in general), lots of thuggish types, etc. FL is a very ghetto place, which IMO, makes it an especially lousy place to raise a family. The creepy/bizarre criminal element in addition to the hordes of shady transients from the world over detract from the area's family-friendless as well. There isn't anything like southern Orange County, northern San Diego County, or Thousand Oaks in FL.
But it doesn't snow.
You cannot generalize and compare a 35 million State to a 20 million State (every part of any state is different). Some cities are better than others. What you wrote are generalizations backed by personal opinion/experiences on a specific area (in this case San Diego/Orange County), not by any credible sources. If you compare San Diego to lets' say Tampa Bay, you will see it lags behind in Quality of Life(which is what you talked about in your post; jobs, purchasing power, crime, health care, traffic, pollution, property taxes etc..)). All those are taken into account.
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[CENTER] Numbeo is the world’s largest database of user contributed data about cities and countries worldwide. Numbeo provides current and timely information on world living conditions including cost of living, housing indicators, health care, traffic, crime and pollution. [/CENTER]
Some people prefer CA, some people prefer FL. With the exception of San Diego, the rest of large cities in CA offer lower than FL Quality of Life (except Miami). Naturally, Miami pulls down the entire state.
Last edited by Yac; 02-13-2014 at 07:24 AM..
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