Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Florida
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-31-2014, 04:53 PM
 
Location: North of South, South of North
8,704 posts, read 10,827,634 times
Reputation: 5147

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_liking_FL View Post
I think that is a lot better than what the law is now, but I think that might be a little lax considering the potential damage they can cause. Consider the damage that pythons are causing and the state seems to be doing little to control the problem. At the rate these snakes are expanding it would not surprise me if one day they become a problem for the entire Southeast.
You may just want to check the laws in your new home state of Illinois. You can own the same snakes there, as long as you have a permit.

You better get to posting the same thread in the Chicago forum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-31-2014, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 16,009,290 times
Reputation: 6085
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams View Post
The very act of some half wit keeping cobras as pets is negligence. Getting that "piece of paper" proves that there is a scientific or medical reason to keep poisonous, exotic snakes. There is no reason on God's Green Earth why a layman should be allowed (or even want) to keep cobras as pets. What's next-some goober fancies himself an amateur epidemiologist and feels the need to keep Ebola and Typhoid viruses on hand?
Cobras should not be kept by inexperienced people. They are deadly. It would be akin to keeping an alligator in your bathtub. I agree, no layman snake enthusiast should have any venomous snakes.

To have a problem with Cobras a male and female would have to be released. Then they have to find each other. So the worry about FL being taken over by Cobras is pretty remote.

I wonder how he got the snake as dealers would want to know his license info before selling it to him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-31-2014, 10:20 PM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,874,531 times
Reputation: 2402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_liking_FL View Post
Florida is all about personal freedom no matter how detrimental it is to your fellow man.

LOL! I'm not one to bash FL too much, but this should be a state bumper sticker. It is pretty accurate... Overall I think the state culture seems to focus so much on "personal freedom" and no interference/regulation of govt., that it results in a pretty selfish culture that cares very little for the welfare of the community at large. "I got mine...," Needs of the individual over needs of the group.

Cobras should just be illegal for non-professional individual citizens to have, as should pythons. There is no reason to allow it, it has already proven extremely detrimental to citizens at large and the environment we all share. Illegal is illegal - I'm not really into the idea of imposing too much jail time, because we have too many people imprisoned already and it's doing us no good and costing us a ton. However, some jail time like 90 days or 6 months maybe - and a VERY hefty fine would benefit the state because we need money, and encourage a lot of people to avoid making this choice.

No one except zoos and scientists working with non-profits should be allowed to have certain types of invasive or potentially invasive deadly species like this. And no zoo or other facility should be certified to have them without demonstrating that they can keep them contained in the event of a catastrophic hurricane, and showing that that plan is current every 3-5 years.

Whether or not a minority of people will consciously choose to break the law is not a reason not to have laws.

I see people selling pythons in FL on craigslist and it makes me ill - you know they are not keeping to any kind of standard when they sell, and then it's only a matter of time until the next idiot sets them loose. It's not like this is the worst issue FL faces, but this is such an easy one that does not even negatively affect that many people or really have that much controversy around it, and yet the state can't even make simple decisions to address such small and uncomplicated problems. Of course FL can't fix the very difficult issues that have strong proponents on either side, when they can't address a problem supported by maybe 2% snake handlers, 10% no-govt. nuts, 40% population that doesn't care, 40% population that thinks its a good idea, and 8% environmentalist nuts and safety nuts who will chain themselves to a govt. building until they make stricter laws against dangerous snake ownership. Just do the right thing already, it's not that big a deal, no one's going to lose their political seat over a strict snake law - my random guess says it's like 12% of the population that's going to freak out about it, and the rest who will be pleased or not care.

FL does function however as though it's always more worried about pissing off the angry 12% than doing the right thing for the health and safety of the majority of its citizens. The majority of people in the state are apathetic, you could do almost anything with our legislature and they won't really do much about it - we have plenty of evidence of that already. It would be great then if the easy decisions were made by what is right for the state's people and environment. Snake rights are one of those easy decisions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2014, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,972 posts, read 7,157,141 times
Reputation: 7224
That was actually quite an insightful post, Starfish and you're first paragraph is unfortunately all too true. Pythons, for example-anyone with half a brain would have told you thirty years ago that private ownership of pythons wasn't a good idea for Florida but because of general apathy and the greasing of Tallahassee palms, it was allowed until the national media picked up on the infestation in South Florida and again put Florida under the microscope. According to this article, the state's latest plan for battling pythons is to do...nothing.

Big but nearly invisible in the wild, officials give up on evicting pythons from Everglades - The Washington Post
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2014, 09:09 AM
 
8 posts, read 18,750 times
Reputation: 12
People keep all kinds of pets.http://weber.ninecomputer.com/1.jpg
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 16,009,290 times
Reputation: 6085
I guess FL is not alone in personal freedoms: It is unlawful for persons to possess most exotic species unless it is for commercial purposes. Persons may, however, possess up to 6 live native reptiles, and unregulated wildlife. Unregulated wildlife includes but is not limited to: sugar gliders, wallabies, wallaroos, kangaroos, etc.

Colorado Code Regulation 2 CCR 406-0 through Colorado Code Regulation 2 CCR 406-11

2 CCR 406-8
It is illegal for anyone to possess most exotic animals for private purposes.
Individuals can possess up to 6 native reptiles as well as unregulated native wildlife but that these animals can not be bartered, sold or traded.

Arkansas
It is unlawful to own or possess a large carnivore for personal possession. A large carnivore is defined as a lion, tiger or bear. It is unlawful to possess 6 or more bobcat, coyote, deer, gray fox, red fox, opossum, quail, rabbit, raccoon and squirrel. If a person wishes to possess other animals not originally from the state and not listed above then the person must show upon request verification that the animal was legally acquired in the previous state. USDA licensed people are among the exemptions in §20-19-503

Unregulated wildlife are domestic animals. This includes domestic dogs, cats, horses, sheep, swine, cattle, goats, mules, burros, mink, gerbils, hamsters, chinchillas, mice and rats. Also included in this list are European rabbits, chickens, ducks and geese, turkeys, European ferrets, guinea fowl, pigeons, peafowl, ostrich, rhea, emu, llama, alpaca, reindeer, camels and yaks, marine life except for anadromous and catadromous species, hedgehogs, sugar gliders, wallaby, short-tailed possum, wallaroo and kangaroo, All tropical and subtropical fish and birds, giant snakes, modern snakes, file and elephant trunk snakes, sunbeam and pipe snakes and shield-tailed snakes, tropical and sub-tropical lizards, frogs and toads.


Florida has a pretty wide ranging law

Florida Administrative Code Annotated r. §68A-6.0021 : After August 1,1980 these animals may not be kept in the State of Florida for personal use: Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Gibbons, Drills and Mandrills, Orangutans, Baboons, Siamangs, Gelada Baboons, Snow Leopards, Leopards, Jaguars, Tigers, Lions, Bears, Rhinooceros, Elephants, Hippopotamuses, Cape Buffaloes, Crocodiles, Gavials, Black Caimans and Komodo Dragons. This Florida Exotic Animal Law or code also states that it is unlawful to receive any wild animal from an entity that is not permitted for said animal. Wild animals that are bought, sold or transferred from an entity that is lawfully permitted must have transfer papers that are completed with the name, address and permit number that pertains to the specific exotic animal.

Florida Administrative Code Annotated r. §68A-6.0022 : states what is legal concerning possessing captive wildlife and the permits that are required. It is not necessary to have a permit for possession of certain wild animals. These wild animals are rats, mice, gerbils, hedgehogs, reptiles, amphibians, canaries, shell parakeets, moles, shrews, squirrels, rabbits, chipmunks, lovebirds, ferrets, guinea pigs, cockadels, parrots, hamsters, parrots, finches, myna birds, toucans, doves, button quail, prairie dogs and chinchillas. This code also states that person wishing to sell hamsters, domestic mice and rates, guinea pigs, chameleon and gerbils are not required to have a permit.

Applicant must be at least 16 years old, have completed a questionnaire, have met the experience and examination requirements and have the required housing for the animals in question. References are also required. Persons applying for a permit to possess Howler monkeys, Uakaris, Mangabeys, Guenons, Bearded sakis, Guereaza monkeys, Celebes black apes, Idris, Macaques, Langurs, Douc langurs, Snub-nosed langurs, Proboscis monkeys, Servals, European and Canadian lynx, Cougars, panthers, bobcats, cheetahs, caracals, African golden cats, Temmminck's golden cats, fishing cats, ocelots, clouded leopards, coyotes, gray wolves, red wolves, asiadc jackals, black-backed jackals, side-striped jackals, Indian dholes, African hunting dogs, wolverines, honey badgers, American badgers, Old World badgers, Binturongs, hyenas, dwarf crocodiles, alligators, cainans, ostrich or cassowary must pass a questionnaire that assesses their knowledge of behavioral characteristics, nutrition and general husbandry and must be at least 18 years old. Applicants for any permit must not have been convicted of any violations concerning wildlife or cruelty to animals within three years of applying for the permit. Experience and education are also important aspects to the permit procedure.

Idaho
Summary of Law: All species of mammals, birds, or reptiles that are found in the wild and are not species of special concern may be held in captivity without a permit so long as the possessor retains proof that the animal was lawfully obtained. In addition, before bringing an animal into the state an owner must obtain an import permit and comply with specific caging requirements for the animal.


The point is most states allow the harboring of snakes and other wildlife.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2014, 10:52 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,874,531 times
Reputation: 2402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
The point is most states allow the harboring of snakes and other wildlife.
What other states do has no bearing on what is best for Florida residents and its unique environment. Florida - particularly SFL - has a climate suitable for the survival and takeover of species that could not even survive in most other states around the nation.

There is no actual reason for residents to be allowed own many exotic pets that can cause problems for local species and endanger humans. For instance, most parrot species are not practical as domestic pets since they live longer than most humans can actually take care of them and require a lot of special care, and there are far more parrots without homes to go to than there are homes that can take them. FL has its own network of parrot shelters specifically for this reason, and they are overwhelmed with parrots that need adequate foster homes. They get out, and thus we have parrots that are very beautiful but very destructive flying in flocks all over SFL. Taking a questionnaire for a permit hardly justifies domestic ownership of wild monkeys, panthers, cheetahs, crocodiles, alligators, coyotes, bobcats, etc. etc. These animals are not well suited to domestication, pose threats to owners and their neighbors, are often owed in numbers greater than 1 thus allowing for potential breeding in the wild should they escape, and many pose significant risk to the surrounding environment.

Florida does not need to take its cue for addressing environmental and safety concerns from other states - that is the reason for state level law rather than federal (although federal would be appropriate for many of these species), as we have a unique environment and unique concerns with exotics that do not match those of nearly any other state in the country. We should be leading the legislation for measures appropriate to our own state and our own residents, and those measures should be very strict when it comes to exotic pets - it is better to go too far than not far enough in this case, as endless individual species cases pose clear examples to attest to. Hampering the "rights" of a few fringe individuals to own dangerous or impractical species - which most frequently result in cases of struggle for the owners and also abuse to the non-domestic animal - is hardly worth endangering the population of an entire state, its natural environment, and its tourist economy based on that environment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,972 posts, read 7,157,141 times
Reputation: 7224
Spring-did you actually type all of that? Yow.

The point is pythons, boas, cobras, giant snails, lionfish, giant tree frogs, walking catfish, giant poisonous toads, green iguanas and heaven knows how many invasive plants don't just survive in Florida...they thrive at the expense of native species. I couldn't care less what is and isn't allowed in some back water like Arkansas-I live in Florida.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2014, 11:08 AM
 
741 posts, read 907,941 times
Reputation: 1356
The entire point is that Florida's climate allows them to establish themselves, thrive and kill off native species.
It's why Hawaii has always been hysterical about preventing invasive species, its why Ferrets are illegal in California, etc.

Of course, trying to reason with idiot ideologues is pointless, especially if there's any personal ideological nexus to the whole 'gun' thing because they'll defend the most absurd, inherently dangerous behaviors, oppose any regulation on the predictable platitudes (lawbreakers will break the law anyway so laws are pointless, responsible owners aren't the problem, etc, etc...) because they realize that if they don't DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO OWN PYTHONS, THEY'RE COMING FOR MY AR15 NEXT!!!

Society is rapidly arriving at the point where they're ready to tell that entire group to just sit down and shut the hell up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2014, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 16,009,290 times
Reputation: 6085
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams View Post
Spring-did you actually type all of that? Yow.

The point is pythons, boas, cobras, giant snails, lionfish, giant tree frogs, walking catfish, giant poisonous toads, green iguanas and heaven knows how many invasive plants don't just survive in Florida...they thrive at the expense of native species. I couldn't care less what is and isn't allowed in some back water like Arkansas-I live in Florida.
The point I wanted to make is that we dont live in a free for all, lawless wasteland. many other states can be just as passive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Florida
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top