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blame residents of miami for they're horrific attitude. the pic of ocean contaminated water is bal harbour chock full stingy wealthy immigrants wit no respect for nuthing!
Both issues highlighted are areas in which change can be affected, though not without oversight of elected officials taking kickbacks from developers to pass approval for needless new development. Furthermore until Floridians in general get over the fetish of "shiny new homes only" we're only going to continue to see plowed under wildlife habitat in favor of new homes that within several years will be deemed unsuitable as "too old" for resale by many buyers. Absolutely ridiculous.
As for the OP - it is a noble thing you want, I applaud your post. Problem is, Florida has always been playground for the rich as well as a "throwaway" tourist state. Everyone wants to live in FL for the climate and the rate of population growth is followed by the equal rate of destruction of habitat, pollution etc. You are right, people are most responsible, after all it is the idiots releasing pythons for example that will eventually result in most wildlife being gone from places like Everglades. People are just stupid - we have a next door neighbor who was breeding rabbits for meat and fur (another idiot with no other skills in life but to be a breeder of some kind of animal) and when he got evicted, he released a few pairs onto our property (without telling us, of course). The other day we found a nest full of young rabbits and now it is on us to spend $150-$200 per rabbit to spay and neuter and release. These days nobody wants to take responsibility for anything....[/quote]
Let's stay on topic. The topic is Florida's environment. Just because some people troll threads looking to post about their personal agenda on every single one of them, does not mean we have to respond. That post has been reported.
As for the chances of this thread making an impact since Florida has a lot of residents who are not heavily invested in its future, I figure it's always worth the effort to discuss it. My hope is that this thread will bring awareness about some issues to people who have not had a chance to learn about this yet, that it will allow discussion among residents regarding best ways to pursue a better Florida environment, and also hopefully teach some people about certain practices that are harmful or helpful so they can change their actions. A lot of Florida's harm done by residents is done out of ignorance, not out of a willful intent to hurt the state or its nature. The more people who are reached with this information, the better the chance that that info will spread further, and even small changes can become more widespread. Any time citizens take the attitude that they are already defeated, change never occurs. Activists in every area are up against a majority who don't care or who vehemently disagree, up until information is spread and at some point the tide turns. I figure Florida's environment is a relatively easy one to tackle, because this is not a new topic and there are plenty of direct visuals in Florida that can attest to the harm that has already been done. People here are not so much in denial, as they are clueless about what kinds of everyday things they might do that are helping to cause these problems.
Plenty of people in Florida know about and have been directly negatively impacted by algal blooms, the BP oil spill, contaminated beach closings, the death of honeybees, etc. However, most people in Florida are not empowered with the knowledge that they personally have a direct impact on these outcomes, and that they can influence positive change without devoting their life to being in politics. (Actually, they have more power as citizens OUTSIDE the system.) I want people to realize that they are really not powerless in the face of all these negative things happening in our state. Everyone can do SOMETHING, no matter how small, to make it better. And even small things are big things, given that they affect everyone in their community and even across the state. It's way better to do something, than nothing.
Your ex-neighbor, by the way, sounds like a real jerk. Personally I would probably catch all the bunnies I possibly could and turn them in to a local shelter. Then the shelter can pay for the neutering if they decide to do so, and adopt them out given that these animals were previously caged and are not wild. I realize that some shelters will have to make the choice to put the animals down, but if they are not able to be adopted (rabbits live like 12 years, which is why so many are returned after they're not cute and little anymore), that may be the best thing for them and for Florida given that they are not wild nor native to the environment. Bunnies produce so fast and so many that I would find it personally cost prohibitive to pay to spay/neuter them all myself, and the primary objective is to catch as many as possible before they spread and multiply further, or further damage the local environment. It is really a jerky thing to do for that guy to release these animals after being evicted - seems rather vindictive, and certainly not in the best interest of the animals, nor of course the neighbors. But this unfortunately is a common story. It's why we need to have strict laws about what pets are allowed for Florida residents, especially for species that can become invasive or dangerous to humans, simply because it is so very common that people make mistakes and they get loose, or they purposely release them when they're done with them. We have to be more concerned about the well-being of the state and its residents as a whole, than we are for the non-critical desires of a few individuals.
The frustrating thing is, our govt. approaches these kinds of issues completely wrong. They are reactionary, dealing with a problem only after it's already huge, rather than focusing on widespread education and prevention. For the amount of money that certain govt. entities spend on trying to save endangered species, or eradicate invasive species, or clean up toxins, they could easily get a lot more help from the public simply by running aggressive campaigns that educate the public about how humans are contributing to these problems, and why they are actually so important to all of us. Education won't do it all, because some people just don't care, but it would make a very big difference. Most people living here care about the state of Florida - they just don't know HOW to care for it. If every town made it easier and cheaper to live an environment-friendly life for its citizens, most people would jump on board. Who knows, if the rabbit guy grew up learning in school and on TV and from neighbors about how much releasing domesticated and non-native animals harms Florida, maybe he never would have done it... He probably just thought they'd like it out there, but he was very wrong about that.
Last edited by doggiebus; 02-03-2015 at 06:37 AM..
Reason: Orphaned
The thing with septic tanks is that they are DESIGNED to leak wastewater back into the ground. Its what they do. Its what a drainfield is.
The problem with the Keys is that nobody thought that many steps ahead of what might happen if the Keys suddenly got over-populated and all those crappy septic systems were dumping waste back into the ground of what are really fragile island ecosystems.
They should really look into a moratorium-on-sale for all existing septics, too. If your property has a septic but is within range of municipal wastewater service, you can keep it for as long as you own it but once it sells, it has to be decommissioned and the property hooked in.
Septics are no big deal in rural areas, etc, but they are a problem there.
The problem with the Keys is that nobody thought that many steps ahead of what might happen if the Keys suddenly got over-populated and all those crappy septic systems were dumping waste back into the ground of what are really fragile island ecosystems.
They should really look into a moratorium-on-sale for all existing septics, too. If your property has a septic but is within range of municipal wastewater service, you can keep it for as long as you own it but once it sells, it has to be decommissioned and the property hooked in.
It is already more strict than that. Based on a timeline island by island, ALL owners are required to hook up to sewer by the date, at the owner's expense. Fines accumulate rapidly for every day past the due date, and has resulted even in liens so large they caused foreclosure. Either the bank at REO then hooks up, or if a new owner buys at auction they must hook up in addition to paying off the back fines. The deadlines are immediate, and it does not matter who owns what when - whoever's name is on the property must hook up. The Upper Keys are already done except for foreclosures and houses about to go into foreclosure/short sales, and the lines are making their way down the highway all the way down. The problem is, it was not really planned well, and costs for hookup seem to vary dramatically by island since they are not all under the same jurisdiction (and of course by house, depending on how long or difficult your property is to connect through). There is no choice, and no delay is offered past the deadline - only mounting fines as a lien against the house.
Coming originally from the North, I am shocked to know that the County is allowing residents to take care of their own sewer hookup, even to the point of the resident being allowed to dig and install it themselves if they were able to. The government would have total control of that up North, and would make sure everything was done in a uniform and professional manner, since it affects the entire community if it is done right or not. It also would have been planned out ahead of time, and costs would have been uniform and people would have been given time to prepare for the exact cost and to make payments in installments for multiple years if needed. This way seems very helter-skelter, individual, and rather chaotic not to mention expensive and prone to mistakes... but then again, that is how the Keys generally operate, and I doubt the residents would have accepted any other way given that most down here are so anti-government interference to begin with.
I would disagree that septic is not a problem for large rural areas. The waste and chemicals are still seeping into the soil on which you live, and plant your food, and from which you draw your water. It takes decades to see effects in human health and in environmental health from these kinds of exposure, and even then you have to know where to look. Much of the problem is the chemicals dumped down into the system, or some cases of close proximity of the septic system to sources of water. You don't want to live on a mountain of untreated sewage and harsh chemicals, and have that go into the lakes you swim in and fish from, the garden you eat raw vegetables from, and the water you drink from - particularly untreated well water.
Soil is an amazing filter. Humanity has been using septics for quite some time and is well aware of what they do and don't do. The Keys are a total outlier in terms of usage.
I disagree with ridiculous, draconian, authoritarian garbage at ANY level, sad to hear Monroe County has gone down that road with municipal services but eventualy, they'll wind up hitting someone who fights back rather than gives in and if they have actually executed foreclosures based on this, will have a big bill coming due. There are rules about what a municipality can and cannot do as far as levying sudden taxes and financial requirements.
Coming originally from the North, I am shocked to know that the County is allowing residents to take care of their own sewer hookup, even to the point of the resident being allowed to dig and install it themselves if they were able to.
I don't know where you lived "up north" but there are plenty of places up there where people are still not under the complete thumb of the government. Down in unincorporated Palm Beach county you can install septic and get it inspected and you are responsible for your own septic maintenance. There are codes that dictate how far the septic should be from your drinking water (if you have a well). I don't see why we all have to be hooked up into some kind of a centralized system. In Texas, for example, in environmentally sensitive areas the counties dictate usage of aerated septic systems that have a moving component (the aerator) and 3-4 chambers. Look up how a septic system works before you make a judgment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishKey
The government would have total control of that up North, and would make sure everything was done in a uniform and professional manner, since it affects the entire community if it is done right or not.
Not true, this is a blanket statement obviously. For the most part in Florida, it is up to the counties to regulate these things and there are inspections in every place I know of, when the septic is installed. This inspection is to make sure everything is up to code/laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishKey
It also would have been planned out ahead of time, and costs would have been uniform and people would have been given time to prepare for the exact cost and to make payments in installments for multiple years if needed. This way seems very helter-skelter, individual, and rather chaotic not to mention expensive and prone to mistakes... but then again, that is how the Keys generally operate, and I doubt the residents would have accepted any other way given that most down here are so anti-government interference to begin with.
There are many people who do not like to be told. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. I am with you on the need to regulate these things but I do not think it would necessarily require living under the thumb of a local bureaucrat all day long. The reason (besides weather) that there are so many refugees from north east (many of them migrate down to Florida) is that they are sick of the intrusive government and the taxation it brings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishKey
I would disagree that septic is not a problem for large rural areas. The waste and chemicals are still seeping into the soil on which you live, and plant your food, and from which you draw your water. It takes decades to see effects in human health and in environmental health from these kinds of exposure, and even then you have to know where to look. Much of the problem is the chemicals dumped down into the system, or some cases of close proximity of the septic system to sources of water. You don't want to live on a mountain of untreated sewage and harsh chemicals, and have that go into the lakes you swim in and fish from, the garden you eat raw vegetables from, and the water you drink from - particularly untreated well water.
In a rural area population density is low. So long as you make sure your septic is far enough from your well, you should have no problems. If you are dumb enough to grow your salad on top of the leech field, good luck . I don't see why the government should make someone living in a sparsely populated village abide by the same rules as someone living in a near-city situation. I think every county should mandate septic systems that have been inspected by county-designated inspectors though.
The thing with septic tanks is that they are DESIGNED to leak wastewater back into the ground. Its what they do. Its what a drainfield is.
The problem with the Keys is that nobody thought that many steps ahead of what might happen if the Keys suddenly got over-populated and all those crappy septic systems were dumping waste back into the ground of what are really fragile island ecosystems.
They should really look into a moratorium-on-sale for all existing septics, too. If your property has a septic but is within range of municipal wastewater service, you can keep it for as long as you own it but once it sells, it has to be decommissioned and the property hooked in.
Septics are no big deal in rural areas, etc, but they are a problem there.
Usually when a new municipal sewer system is in place in a given locale, the homes and businesses the system is intended to service are required to hook up to the sewer system, and must discontinue the use of their own septic systems. It can be pricey for the homeowner to do so, but the county may have some financial arrangements ( as in adding the cost for each home to the tax bill so it can be paid over time, or in some cases grants, depending on the locations) to make this more affordable to the homeowner. They're planning to do this in Charlotte County on the SW FL coast.
There are many locations in south Florida, including Miami, where individual homeowners still have their own septic systems, and I know of no plans for Miami-Dade County to install additional sewage lines or sewage plants in those areas. I speculate that the cost of doing so would be prohibitive to the county, as it is they have problems maintaining their current sewage lines, and the additional load on those lines could only make it worse.
I think you're right about the Keys. I'd imagine the decisions to use septic systems for homes and businesses there were made when the population was sparse. As it was in those other areas in Florida.
We had a septic system in Miami, and have one here where we live now. They've been little or no problem to us, although we have always done the recommended maintenance.
Aerobic systems are being mandated in areas of Texas due to the black clay soils or very rocky soils that don't perk. The advantage is that there is no leech field. The system is essentially a mini-sewer system, fully treats the sewage, and the water is disbursed via sprinkler heads, so the yard gets watered in the process.
These systems have to be monitored and maintained, with an annual fee of about $200 to the septic companies. Very effective on smaller sites. They would be effective if mandated to replace standard systems in new construction, or if the system totally fails and has to be replaced. But the state might have to set up a fund to help given the high number of retirees and low-income families in the area.
I look forward to moving to Florida one day and this thread is of particular interest to me. For one, I currently work for a public utility in the water conservation office. I hope when I move to Florida to somehow work with protecting water resources or further recycling efforts. (More on the recycling later.)
I recently was involved in developing an education program for septic systems. From everything I have learned about septic systems, they are not designed to leak wastewater back into the ground. When a septic system is properly maintained, the water that leaves the septic tank has been "cleaned" by the bacteria contained within the tank and through the settling that is allowed to occur. What leaves is then further filtered through the drain field.
Unfortunately, we learned that many septic system owners (also known as onsite wastewater managers) do not do anything with their septic system unless they notice a problem. When a problem is noticed, it is typically a large problem that is both expensive to repair and has caused great damage to the environment. The EPA recommends septic systems be pumped and inspected every three to five years. I ran into many people who were quite proud that they haven't had to do anything to their septic system in 20 years. I simply cringe and wonder what issues/problems for our water could be happening under the ground that they can't see.
I admit, not every area is appropriate for a septic system and would be better tied into a municipal (or private?) sewer system. As another poster mentioned, educating the public as to how to care for a septic system could help to lessen the damage caused by a septic system. Septic systems, when properly installed (in land suitable for the system and that matches the type of system installed), should not leak wastewater.
Now onto Recycling. This is something that has frustrated me every time I visit Florida. I can't believe that in 2014-15, the condos/hotels I visit have no recycling program in place. I find myself emptying my trash can almost everyday during my stay. Where I live, I typically have almost a bag of trash once a week. The rest is put into recycling. What type of trouble does Florida have with running out of room for landfills? How about the leaching that can occur from landfills?
Finally, I visited Okaloosa Island this past summer. I can't tell you how disappointed I was with what I thought would be a beautiful area. I couldn't walk down the beach without seeing trash every few feet. I began to carry a bag on my walks. Most everything I picked up was something that could have been put into recycling, yet there was not a recycling can available.
Can anyone tell me what the general thoughts are about recycling in Florida? I realize this is a general statement about a big state. There can be great recycling programs somewhere in Florida and I have to assume I just haven't seen them in action.
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. I don't see why the government should make someone living in a sparsely populated village abide by the same rules as someone living in a near-city situation. I think every county should mandate septic systems that have been inspected by county-designated inspectors though.
