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We are looking put an offer in on a house in Key Largo in the next couple months. The specific area that we are looking in is the neighborhood just south of the YMCA and north of the pilot house restaurant park in central Key Largo (Bahama ave, Coral ave, and Marina Ave.) I wanted to ask on here if anyone had any insight into this area? I'm looking for reasons I wouldn't want to live in this area... like crocodiles living in the area that might try to eat out dog, or loud party goers, etc... And also positive things about the are.
I am also curious about the availability of yearly tenants in this area, should we decide to buy a property with an attached apartment. Is there enough potential to find consistent rental income for a 800-1000sq-ft apartment in key largo for 1000-1500k?
For Information: We are looking at newer (2010-2015) construction homes in the $500k-650k range, we are only considering homes built on stilts, CBS construction, metal roof, and public sewer connected.
PM StarfishKey on the KW Sticky forum. He is highly opinionated, but a good font of info for the Keys. He might be able to steer you in the right direction. Good luck and Merry Christmas
PM StarfishKey on the KW Sticky forum. He is highly opinionated, but a good font of info for the Keys. He might be able to steer you in the right direction. Good luck and Merry Christmas
We are looking put an offer in on a house in Key Largo in the next couple months. The specific area that we are looking in is the neighborhood just south of the YMCA and north of the pilot house restaurant park in central Key Largo (Bahama ave, Coral ave, and Marina Ave.) I wanted to ask on here if anyone had any insight into this area? I'm looking for reasons I wouldn't want to live in this area... like crocodiles living in the area that might try to eat out dog, or loud party goers, etc... And also positive things about the are.
I am also curious about the availability of yearly tenants in this area, should we decide to buy a property with an attached apartment. Is there enough potential to find consistent rental income for a 800-1000sq-ft apartment in key largo for 1000-1500k?
For Information: We are looking at newer (2010-2015) construction homes in the $500k-650k range, we are only considering homes built on stilts, CBS construction, metal roof, and public sewer connected.
Any info would be great.
These are some very specific questions, and the best answers you are going to get are going to come directly from neighbors. Keys residents are very friendly. 2 months is a short time for such an important decision, so you want to get as much detailed info as soon as possible to help you. Your best bet therefore is when you find specific houses you are interested in, to walk around and chat with neighbors and nearby business owners. Don't tip them off that you're interested in a specific house, because Keys people are very protective of their own and will have loyalty usually to the neighbor (unless the neighbor is horrible). Just say that you're considering buying in the Keys sometime in the coming year and like this particular area. Ask people at the Pilot House and the businesses along the Overseas Hwy on the blocks you're into.
Having said that, here are some general answers:
I love that area, but each of those streets has a very different vibe. Bahama is very distinctly in the Port Largo neighborhood, and your price range likely indicates you're looking smaller canalfront, or a very large and new dry lot. There is a certain amount of investment value to buying waterfront in Port Largo proper.
Coral Ave. tends to be more run-down with older houses. It can be a great place for a deal, but your money will usually go farther there. It's worth it if you're concerned about budget, or if the neighbors appear to be renovating the old homes (plenty of construction going on all over the Upper Keys now - so much so that local construction supply places are running out of stock).
Depending on where you are, Marina Ave. tends to have the best views, and is a little quieter and more private. I am a fan of it personally, although the houses are more middle of the road mostly and not so ostentatious as on waterfront Bahama. I am also personally a fan of the Ocean Shore Dr.s - particularly South. But that's all going to be up to personal preference.
To a certain extent, all houses - especially waterfront - in the Keys are going to be subject to noise and party-goers, especially if you have neighbors who decide to illegally rent out their house to vacation rentals. There is a lot of noise that comes off the water, because it reflects everywhere around you, and those who choose to party while they boat will speed, blast music, etc. at all hours can cause a nuisance to others. Unless you are very sensitive to this, it's not likely to be a huge problem for you - but again I would ask neighbors and businesses on the specific block you're considering, keeping in mind that things change with new residents and renters coming in all the time, so current conditions are never a 100% prediction. If you're party-noise-phobic, the Keys are not a good choice for you anyway. But it shouldn't be too excessive, and if it is you can certainly call the MCPD and complain, especially for a consistent nuisance. Certain neighborhoods are known to be more of a party noise area than where you are considering - the Port Largo area is pretty stable, with families, and mostly people who have enough money to afford their place without needing to rent to any psycho who comes by. The Northern streets (toward Caribbean) are pretty snooty and wouldn't tolerate a lot of craziness anyway.
Renting is complicated in the Keys. You will have no shortage in Key Largo of people who want to rent, monthly, quarterly, or yearly. The problem is finding responsible tenants. The Keys do not attract responsible people, and the majority who do come down either do not have the kind of money you're talking about (especially with F/L/S which is common in the Keys), or have so much money they bought their own house. But it's not impossible if you're patient. If you're very picky about renters (I think you should be, since this is a major investment) and need the income to pay for the house, reconsider this plan. Will you end up in foreclosure if you can't rent out to someone with a good credit score, no criminal background, and proof of a steady job with sufficient income? Or will you be willing to rent to someone subpar just to make ends meet? What if the people you rent to are heavy drinkers, into drugs, and loud partiers? This is common in the Keys, so think about what you will do to prevent this, or if you can deal with it. Be absolutely sure that the property you're buying is above-flood and has no illegal downstairs enclosure. Ask the Realtor for restrictions on renting for that particular house - it should be the typical monthly minimum rental, but some might be subject to special restrictions, so just be sure.
If you can afford to wait out the right tenant coming along, or are willing to lower your rental amount for the perfect tenant, you should be fine. Keep in mind, it is extremely common for people to move down here with multiple pets, and it is also extremely common for Keys landlords to refuse all pets. So consider what you will do about that question. If you rent to pet owners, please require your renter to pick up all waste in the yard and put it in a bag in the trash, because run-off from pet waste is directly responsible for much of the reef death in the Keys, along with chemical run-off from fertilizers. Please remove invasive plants from your property when you move in, and plant non-invasives (ideally many natives) which are sustainable and don't need hordes of fresh water (which there is a shortage of) and chemical fertilizers. Consider running an organic-only yard, for the benefit of the reef, if not your own family's health.
Crocs are not much of a concern Oceanside. They are more common Bayside. And even then, they are easily shut out with a fence around the property, or a gate on the waterfront. They are not prone to coming very far up on land and bothering property owners. They are worst on Lake Surprise and just South of that area, but even then not a lot of dogs get eaten. Do NOT let your dog swim in the canal, no matter where you live in the Upper Keys. We have barracuda, and plenty of other things that will be a problem, aside from crocs. Crocodiles in the Keys generally prefer fish though, and generally have their fill so aren't interested in people or dogs. They are not aggressive. Do not dump fish waste or kitchen scraps in the water, because doing so ruins water quality in canals, and also directly feeds the crocodiles which encourages them to associate people with food.
Stick to a house that is newer than 2002 and you should be fine. Make absolutely sure your house did not have any unpermitted work, and consider hiring a real estate attorney to fully vet the house before purchase. Fines for permit issues are no joke in Monroe County. Be aware that cutting mangroves requires a permit and a biologist visiting your house, so if your property has overgrown mangroves cutting off waterfront, look into that and consider the hassle and costs. It's not usually that big a deal, unless they have already grown completely blocking the water, but just keep it in mind.
Double-check the house for mold, termites, and rats in the crawlspace. Get an inspector with a reputation for being extremely picky. Let them find the problems, and then you can decide if you want to live with them. Florida is an AS-IS property state. I personally would recommend not using a Realtor who requires you to use their inspection, mortgage, and title people. That is common in the Keys, and it is a form of cronyism that pushes sales through so everybody gets paid, even if the owner ends up with a house that is terrible for them. They will say it is because they trust that group and know they will get things done properly and quickly, and that may be true. But there is another side to it, which is that they will tend to push off bad deals on the buyer, who doesn't know the Keys, so they get paid.
I don't think those streets were flooded by the recent high tide and rain events we had here, but many Upper Keys streets were, so ask people on the block if water came up and how high. You need to prepare for the possibility of brackish or salt water blocking a low-riding car from passing. The water level is rising here, and there are noticeable effects throughout the Keys. Key Largo has some of the highest land in the islands though, especially near the highway.
Be aware that the Upper Keys get massive swarms of mosquitoes every summer, especially if there is an Easterly wind, off the Everglades. It's part of life here, and is survivable.
If this concerns you, be sure to look up the sex offender registry. There are more sex offenders in Monroe County than in most counties - not all of them registered. For the most part, they are not actively dangerous, and cannot afford to live in the upscale neighborhoods. But proximity and nature of crime might be important to you.
If you want more info about living in the Keys, look up my other threads. There are many many pages of details about purchase, flood issues, insurance, wildlife, what to do locally, etc. I can't write it all out here.
As for what the good things are... are you really asking that? The positives of living in the Keys, and in the area you're considering, I think are pretty self-evident. Make sure to ask what the depth is at low tide in your particular canal, but I think all of those in the area you're considering are decently deep, and clean. If you are well-suited to the isolation and slowness of the Keys, you're going to love it here. If you read all my threads and that stuff doesn't bother you, you're going to be fine.
Last edited by StarfishKey; 12-23-2015 at 09:36 AM..
I was just thinking about this some more - and maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm not sure there even ARE that many new houses on the specific streets you're thinking of in the price range you're talking about to choose from... Most will be older, or well above your price range. Did you get these plans from looking at specific houses, or is this wishful thinking?
Just a reminder to be realistic. In that price range, you can certainly get something somewhere near those streets, if not on them, but it may be an older house. That is not necessarily a bad thing, some older houses in the Keys are built really well, and kept up well. But you have to give yourself the timeframe to keep looking until you find it. You are talking about purchasing really soon, so I'm just not sure you're giving yourself enough time to find what you're looking for. A quick search on Zillow (not the most up-to-date info, but the best search engine) shows only 3 houses in all of Key Largo that fit those requirements, and none of them are in the area you're interested in. In Port Largo and the streets below it that you're considering, all but 2 houses I can find that have are for sale or sold in the past 2 years with that criteria, were priced over $1 million. You have to remember that the Keys do not provide as many options as in normal real estate areas. You have to conform to what we have if you want to live here. Building from the ground up is very hard to get permits for (if you can at all), takes years, and is extremely expensive. You may need to significantly lower your expectations, at least in terms of house age, if you want to buy in that neighborhood.
Also, all of I think 1 house was built in Key Largo in 2010. Most of the years of your span, the Great Recession was on, and no one was building. 2002 and newer should be fine for a Keys house purchase, or a sturdy older house if you really want that neighborhood. Most of the houses in your price range in that area will be from the 70s and 80s.
And be realistic about hurricanes. It is a matter of WHEN here, not if. Next year is predicted to be a terrible El Nina season in terms of named storms, so that just ups our chances. Be ready with the insurance.
Last edited by StarfishKey; 12-23-2015 at 10:01 AM..
Thanks StarfishKey for all the great info! In response to some of what you said, We have looked at several homes and generally what we are finding are 1500-2000 sq.ft. new construction homes on dry lots and these are in the 450-530k range. And for homes on canal front lots in the 900-1200sqft living space range we are looking at new(ish) construction homes priced between 600-700k. And we have found and toured a couple homes in each of the above categories. We are mainly interested in newly constructed homes.
And about the rental scenario, I would not purchase a house unless I could afford the mortgage without any additional rental income, especially in a place as unique as the Keys. The reason I ask about renters, is that several of the houses we looked at had legal finished downstairs enclosures, that are separate from the main house and had two rooms and a full bath and a separate A/C unit. Therefore I made the jump that all the space needs is a Kitchenette and laundry hookup, and it would be a great little apt. These spaces could also serve as a great guest quarters for when we have visitors, if the renter idea didn't work out.
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The positives of living in the Keys, and in the area you're considering, I think are pretty self-evident. Make sure to ask what the depth is at low tide in your particular canal, but I think all of those in the area you're considering are decently deep, and clean. If you are well-suited to the isolation and slowness of the Keys, you're going to love it here. If you read all my threads and that stuff doesn't bother you, you're going to be fine.
