New vs Old Houses in Florida (salon, 2015, hazard insurance)
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After looking at at least 100 of each I have come to the following general conclusions:
1. New houses are narrower with smaller lots and have similar floor plans. If you want a larger lot or one with a view there is often a lot premium.
2. New houses have bigger kitchens, bigger master bedroom suites and bigger closets.
3. New houses have higher ceilings.
4. Newer houses are further from the Ocean and when they are closer they are much more expensive with smaller lots.
5. New developments tend to have activity centers of varying sizes, a pool and salon is considered an activity center now.
6. Older houses give you more bang for the buck because land prices were much lower as was labor.
7. Older houses have higher utility bills and insurance depending on the age of the house.
8. Older developments have mature landscaping and don't look like clear cut.
9. Older houses are in the more desirable areas since they built in the best areas first (they are also in the least desirable areas as well).
10. New developments can have shoddy construction depending on the developer.
11. New developments can have CDD fees which raise your monthly payments.
12. New houses tend to have models with massive amounts of upgrades and you have to keep in mind your house will almost never look anything like that. They are selling you an "Illusion"
#6, they often need updating our hazardous materials removed as well
#7, higher utilities because of poor (by today's standards) materials, insulation and construction methods
#10 applies to homes of any age.
People tend to get really romantic about older houses. I don't always agree. Engineering, materials and construction practises are greatly improved over time. Most older homes would not be able to be built today since they are underbuilt by modern standards.
The fact that so many old homes stood the test of time also shows that modern codes are often overly restrictive. But like so much else in the world, it's now an industry that needs to come up with new requirements so people can keep their job. I really wish humans in general were smart enough to say "alright, we got this down, let's leave it alone".
It sounds like you are comparing characteristics and features of different houses ... without clearly deciding what you are seeking and why. The decision about old or newer homes is secondary to that.
Frankly, we've owned a few new homes and they are really more of a hassle (landscaping, upgraded features, construction bugs that need to be worked-out, window treatments, garage and storage shelving, and a hundred other things you thought you would avoid with a new house).
We normally prefer new only, however for this search we wanted a more established looking neighborhood, but with no homes in the Chinese drywall period. We ended up in an open layout 1995 home that needs some updating, but luckily the kitchen and some flooring were already done! The layout is great and it is on a corner lot. The best thing I love about it is the drop dead gorgeous neighborhood on the east banks of Lake Tarpon. You can't update location. We love it more and more every day, especially as we make it our own doing little upgrades as we go along.
You're right about the lot sizes. I would rather have an older home in a nice established neighborhood, even if it required some updating. than these new things built right next to each other. The new construction is a joke anyway. Watch them put the homes together sometimes. True, they will generally use good materials, but they use as little of it as possible, and you will have NO sound proofing. You can hear everything in these homes. Everything is built to the absolute minimum structural standards that the codes permit.
You're right about the lot sizes. I would rather have an older home in a nice established neighborhood, even if it required some updating. than these new things built right next to each other. The new construction is a joke anyway. Watch them put the homes together sometimes. True, they will generally use good materials, but they use as little of it as possible, and you will have NO sound proofing. You can hear everything in these homes. Everything is built to the absolute minimum structural standards that the codes permit.
I would tend to agree with you from what I've seen over the years. But I think we avoided the pitfalls of mass new construction ( as in developers mass producing new housing developments), got what we wanted and on a large scenic lot of our choosing, by picking a general contractor who was building a few houses more or less custom to what the homeowners wanted. We watched the building process, knew (and saw the evidence) that they did a good job on the building, with no shortcuts or cheap substitutes that we could ever tell.
It took us a number of years of looking, interviewing, asking for references and some past experience with home building to find the guy we used, and there were some issues and problems along the way ( mostly related to supply and manpower shortages during and after the hurricanes that criss-crossed FL in 2004 and 2005), but the finished product was great.
I know not everyone can go this route, and frankly we also debated whether it was worth the headaches to build, or just to buy a house already built. But we had bought the property and wanted to live there, and even looking around at other waterfront builds, we never found anything we liked as much as this property, so we,forged ahead. So now we think we have it all. A newer house, well built, and on almost an acre of prime Gulf access riverfront property. A plus is the low density, population wise, of the area, and NO HOA.
We normally prefer new only, however for this search we wanted a more established looking neighborhood, but with no homes in the Chinese drywall period. We ended up in an open layout 1995 home that needs some updating, but luckily the kitchen and some flooring were already done! The layout is great and it is on a corner lot. The best thing I love about it is the drop dead gorgeous neighborhood on the east banks of Lake Tarpon. You can't update location. We love it more and more every day, especially as we make it our own doing little upgrades as we go along.
Sounds like you're located on lakefront property. IMO that's the best thing of all.
When we were looking we didnt want an old home, 1970s or older for insurance reasons. We also didnt want a brand new 2015 home either. We ended up with a 1995 block home 1300 sqft, 3/2 located 20 minutes from the beach. Lots of character to, isnt cookie cutter. This was what is most comfortable to us and were very happy with the choice. Insurance came to $644 a year, no flood zone - which is best of all!
Location: Sarasota/ Bradenton - University Pkwy area
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One additional item I would add to your list is that older homes often have had remodeling done without permits. Lanais often become bonus rooms, garages master bedroom suites.
If you purchase a property in Florida that had remodeling work done that was done without permits when permits were required, the building department has the authority to force the "current owner" of record to obtain the required permits and satisfy ALL code requirements. Doesn't matter which previous owner did the unauthorized work, current owner becomes responsible. Once you close on the purchase of that property you are now the "current owner."
First, the building department can assess penalties on the current owner for non-compliance. Applying for a permit after the fact is not necessarily an easy procedure. If construction documents and inspections would have been required to satisfy the original permit, those items must now be obtained as well. Walls may need to be opened to inspect electrical and plumbing. Inspectors will not assume everything was done according to code, they will want verification. You may have to get an architect, an engineer and/or a general contractor involved in the inspection process, depending on what type of work was done without permits and documentation required to obtain the permits.
Another issue is that the work that was done must meet CURRENT code, not the code applicable when the unpermitted work was originally done.
If the work completed is not to code, the building department can and has required the "current owner" to remove the entire unpermitted project. That additional bedroom with bath may have to be gutted and turned back into a garage at your expense.
If the home is on a septic system, the additional living square footage may create an entirely different set of problems to do with the size of the drain field and whether it is sufficient to handle an additional bath.
Insurance can become another issue. If any of the work done without permits is not to code it may impact a buyer's ability to get hazard insurance on the property. I have been involved in a couple of closings where that happened. The sellers ended up having to pay to have the electrical and/or plumbing work redone, with permits, before the buyers would/could close.
Insurance companies are also getting pickier about permits in general, especially as it pertains to electrical and plumbing work. More than one insurance agent within the past couple of years has told me that should a homeowner file a claim because of damage caused by unpermitted work (when permits were required), the insurance company may deny payment of the claim based on the failure to obtain proper permits to ensure the work was done to code. I do not know if this is industry wide.
So what does this all mean to a home buyer? If you are getting financing, the appraiser will use the "official" information provided by the property appraiser's office for number of bedrooms & baths, living square footage. That unpermitted additional bedroom/bath will not be included in calculating the appraised value of the home. Finding insurance may also be difficult. If you are a cash purchaser, appraisals are not required, nor are you required to carry hazard insurance on the home. However, if you decide at some point in time into the future to sell that home you will have to disclose to buyers that you have knowledge that work was done on the home without required permits. Potential buyers will most likely either want a deep discount on the price to compensate for the lack of permits or, more likely, want the seller to fix the issue by getting the required permits retroactively. Think carefully about the total expenses of buying that particular home, not just the asking price, before signing a contract to purchase.
One additional item I would add to your list is that older homes often have had remodeling done without permits. Lanais often become bonus rooms, garages master bedroom suites.
If you purchase a property in Florida that had remodeling work done that was done without permits when permits were required, the building department has the authority to force the "current owner" of record to obtain the required permits and satisfy ALL code requirements. Doesn't matter which previous owner did the unauthorized work, current owner becomes responsible. Once you close on the purchase of that property you are now the "current owner."
First, the building department can assess penalties on the current owner for non-compliance. Applying for a permit after the fact is not necessarily an easy procedure. If construction documents and inspections would have been required to satisfy the original permit, those items must now be obtained as well. Walls may need to be opened to inspect electrical and plumbing. Inspectors will not assume everything was done according to code, they will want verification. You may have to get an architect, an engineer and/or a general contractor involved in the inspection process, depending on what type of work was done without permits and documentation required to obtain the permits.
Another issue is that the work that was done must meet CURRENT code, not the code applicable when the unpermitted work was originally done.
If the work completed is not to code, the building department can and has required the "current owner" to remove the entire unpermitted project. That additional bedroom with bath may have to be gutted and turned back into a garage at your expense.
If the home is on a septic system, the additional living square footage may create an entirely different set of problems to do with the size of the drain field and whether it is sufficient to handle an additional bath.
Insurance can become another issue. If any of the work done without permits is not to code it may impact a buyer's ability to get hazard insurance on the property. I have been involved in a couple of closings where that happened. The sellers ended up having to pay to have the electrical and/or plumbing work redone, with permits, before the buyers would/could close.
Insurance companies are also getting pickier about permits in general, especially as it pertains to electrical and plumbing work. More than one insurance agent within the past couple of years has told me that should a homeowner file a claim because of damage caused by unpermitted work (when permits were required), the insurance company may deny payment of the claim based on the failure to obtain proper permits to ensure the work was done to code. I do not know if this is industry wide.
So what does this all mean to a home buyer? If you are getting financing, the appraiser will use the "official" information provided by the property appraiser's office for number of bedrooms & baths, living square footage. That unpermitted additional bedroom/bath will not be included in calculating the appraised value of the home. Finding insurance may also be difficult. If you are a cash purchaser, appraisals are not required, nor are you required to carry hazard insurance on the home. However, if you decide at some point in time into the future to sell that home you will have to disclose to buyers that you have knowledge that work was done on the home without required permits. Potential buyers will most likely either want a deep discount on the price to compensate for the lack of permits or, more likely, want the seller to fix the issue by getting the required permits retroactively. Think carefully about the total expenses of buying that particular home, not just the asking price, before signing a contract to purchase.
Excellent well thought out post and very informative. Thank you.
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