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Old 11-04-2019, 01:52 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,420,786 times
Reputation: 7217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Now get out there on election day and do the right thing.
The right thing is to vote for candidates committed to a rapid phase-out of fossil fuel consumption, likely only possible by implanting a carbon tax. To allow the free market to work its will unencumbered, the carbon tax should be refundable. Americans would be allowed to realign their purchasing power to reduce fossil fuel consumption, conserve energy more, and shift reliance to renewable energy sources, likely including advanced nuclear power solutions.

A refundable carbon tax was championed over two years by Jim Baker, arguably the greatest living Republican and American statesman.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanal.../#538f429b7ce1

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...ates/97647630/

https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2018/...policy-makers/

https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2019/...wynwood-mural/

https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2019/...-a-carbon-tax/

I believe only Mayor Pete currently proposes a refundable carbon tax among major Democratic Party candidates.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...s-a-carbon-tax

 
Old 11-04-2019, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,693 posts, read 12,772,161 times
Reputation: 19261
It took Ron DeSantis to bring all the politicians in Florida together. Let's just keep that in mind. Not any of those who preceeded him. Let's encourage this kind of leadership.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,663 posts, read 10,736,130 times
Reputation: 6945
I think it’s reasonable for a Republican governor to want to examine the potential issues related to climate change without necessarily subscribing to the hypothesis of man-caused climate change and the belief that man can reverse climate change whether it is natural or man-related. I’m not sure anyone has proven that humans can actually affect climate directly but no one questions that climate has changed over time, is changing now, and will continue to change in the future. And, no one questions that humans can make plans to mitigate the impacts that climate change can impose on us.

Our governor is just being proactive as he has been from the get go.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 05:16 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,384,702 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
The right thing is to vote for candidates committed to a rapid phase-out of fossil fuel consumption, likely only possible by implanting a carbon tax. To allow the free market to work its will unencumbered, the carbon tax should be refundable. Americans would be allowed to realign their purchasing power to reduce fossil fuel consumption, conserve energy more, and shift reliance to renewable energy sources, likely including advanced nuclear power solutions.

A refundable carbon tax was championed over two years by Jim Baker, arguably the greatest living Republican and American statesman.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanal.../#538f429b7ce1

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...ates/97647630/

https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2018/...policy-makers/

https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2019/...wynwood-mural/

https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2019/...-a-carbon-tax/

I believe only Mayor Pete currently proposes a refundable carbon tax among major Democratic Party candidates.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...s-a-carbon-tax
The economy would tank. Fossil fuels make up a huge amount of our society and businesses and there is no viable replacement at the level needed and such a tax would harm everyone economically. Now if they took a step by step, with say solar power fields, not just on roof tops, then the usage of such fuels would drop over time. But all electric vehicles would, as an example demand more electric power than can be produced without such fuel use. It is NOT an easy problem to deal with.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 05:27 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,803,581 times
Reputation: 25191
Of course yet again, the only solution to an issue is taxes, lol.
 
Old 11-04-2019, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,693 posts, read 12,772,161 times
Reputation: 19261
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
I think it’s reasonable for a Republican governor to want to examine the potential issues related to climate change without necessarily subscribing to the hypothesis of man-caused climate change and the belief that man can reverse climate change whether it is natural or man-related. I’m not sure anyone has proven that humans can actually affect climate directly but no one questions that climate has changed over time, is changing now, and will continue to change in the future. And, no one questions that humans can make plans to mitigate the impacts that climate change can impose on us.

Our governor is just being proactive as he has been from the get go.
Perfectly explained! I can't rep you anymore unfortunately. My own personal take on climate change is the same as our Governors'. My only fear is that if humans can articially alter C02 levels that there could be unintended consqunces like when we dug the canals from Lake O to the seas.
 
Old 11-05-2019, 04:27 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,420,786 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
I’m not sure anyone has proven that humans can actually affect climate directly but no one questions that climate has changed over time, is changing now, and will continue to change in the future. And, no one questions that humans can make plans to mitigate the impacts that climate change can impose on us.
The overwhelming scientific consensus is that the increase in atmospheric levels of greenhouse gases (primarily carbon dioxide and methane) as a direct and indirect result of fossil fuel consumption is raising global temperatures. Man-made climate change deniers seem oblivious to the reality that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere are now as high as they've been in the last 3 million years as a result of the significant increase associated with fossil fuel consumption in the last 150 years.

<<Another climate milestone soared by last weekend when scientists announced that atmospheric carbon dioxide levels hit 415 parts per million for the first time ever.

It’s the latest in a long list of broken records, and like the others, it promises to hold the title temporarily. Atmospheric CO2 is rising at accelerating rates—currently climbing at close to 3 ppm each year, and getting faster. Every year, the world sees new levels that were previously unrecorded in modern human history. The last time CO2 concentrations hit 415 ppm was likely close to 3 million years ago....

Not only are atmospheric concentrations still climbing, but the rate seems to be accelerating. Ralph Keeling, director of the Scripps Institute of Oceanography’s CO2 Program, which monitors CO2 concentrations at the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii, noted that this year’s total increase will probably be around 3 ppm. The recent annual average has been hovering around 2.5 ppm.>>

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...hy-it-matters/

https://ocean.si.edu/conservation/cl...climate-change

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Over 90 percent of the global excess heat associated with fossil fuel consumption has been absorbed by the oceans, with disastrous impacts on global fisheries and resulting in the intensification of hurricanes of tropical storms, and accelerated ice melt and sea level rise. Harold Wanless of the Univ. of Miami is one of Florida's top experts on sea level rise and offers a concise explanation of man-made climate change and resulting sea level rise and the impact on Floridians.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion...620-story.html

Global warming is not the only significant impact of fossil fuel consumption. Few politicians and media members even discuss the disastrous increase in ocean acidification, easily measured and directly resulting from fossil fuel consumption. Ocean acidification has been labeled "climate change's equally evil twin" and would merit immense concern even if no global warming was caused by fossil fuel consumption. See ocean "Acidification Chemistry" here for anyone seeking a scientific explanation.

https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/inve...-acidification

Anybody can write or say that man-made climate change doesn't exist, just as anybody can argue that the earth is flat. Both are objective falsehoods, however.

It's increasingly inexplicable to many Americans how anyone can ignore the massive decrease in ice in the world's cryosphere, the massive decline of the world's coral species, the increasing diminishment of global fisheries, intensification of hurricanes and tropical storms due to ocean warming, etc., and not acknowledge the negative impacts of fossil fuel consumption.

With the onslaught of disastrous global inundation now at hand, future generations likely will view man-made climate change deniers with great disdain, especially as all of the other consequences of massive fossil fuel consumption are registered.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50236882

Even the realization of the soon-to-be-revised forecast by southeast Florida governments of 6-12 inches of sea level rise by 2030 likely will greatly thin the ranks of man-made climate change deniers in Florida in the years ahead.

https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2019/...e-projections/

Last edited by WRnative; 11-05-2019 at 05:15 AM..
 
Old 11-05-2019, 05:01 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,420,786 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Jan 8, 2019......90mm first measurement for this year
Jun 25, 2019....94.6mm last measurement posted for this year

look at the math carefully....that's an increase of 4.6mm....not 8mm

Jun 11, 2010.....56.3mm
Apr 4, 2011.......47.6mm

...sea level fell a real measured 8.7mm

cherry picking the natural up and downs is fun!
My analysis was of the most recent NASA sea level measurements. The last few years are most relevant because of the observed significant increase in temperatures and ice melt in the cryosphere. Just examples from this year.

<<The size and explosive growth rate of the newfound hole, however, surprised them. It's big enough to have contained 14 billion tons of ice, and most of that ice melted over the last three years.>> Emphasis added.

https://sealevel.nasa.gov/news/152/h...ls-rapid-decay

<<The glacier-covered island lost 12.5 billion tons of ice in one day.
As climate scientist Martin Stendel points out, that's enough to cover all of Florida with almost five inches of water.>> Emphasis added.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottsn.../#66f70ba94894

https://arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card/...cutive-Summary

With temperatures in the cryosphere only recently rising above the melting point of ice, and with the intensity and frequency of the ice-melting temperatures increasing, even measurements from the start of this decade are less relevant to the future.

While charging "cherry picking," you did just that by focusing on one of the steepest periods of sea level decline in the history of NASA's satellite measurement of sea level rise. Yet anybody with a good level of high school math proficiency can just look at this graph and note the steepening slope of the curve since 2011 and understand the implications.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

Current scientific projections of sea level rise don't reflect the emergence of the feedback loops that we've unleashed.

https://news.yahoo.com/its-already-b...090000011.html

This very recent story should frighten anyone with a knowledge of the immense amounts of frozen methane locked under the world's oceans, and how methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

https://www.newsweek.com/video-sea-b...-thaws-1468686

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

Last edited by WRnative; 11-05-2019 at 06:19 AM..
 
Old 11-05-2019, 05:09 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,397,040 times
Reputation: 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Of course yet again, the only solution to an issue is taxes, lol.
I know because flooding of cities and billions of dollars in losses is so much better than paying a few dollars now to prevent this inevitable disaster.

I have news for you Hoss and all that think like you is that the taxes you pay are already going up as municipalities and counties pay more to deal with rising sea levels.

The question is, is it to be better to be proactive or reactive.

Obviously, proactive means taking action to curtail carbon emissions.

It is obvious to all except Climate Change deniers who are blinded by ideology.
 
Old 11-05-2019, 05:42 AM
 
9,382 posts, read 8,345,252 times
Reputation: 19168
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
I think it’s reasonable for a Republican governor to want to examine the potential issues related to climate change without necessarily subscribing to the hypothesis of man-caused climate change and the belief that man can reverse climate change whether it is natural or man-related. I’m not sure anyone has proven that humans can actually affect climate directly but no one questions that climate has changed over time, is changing now, and will continue to change in the future. And, no one questions that humans can make plans to mitigate the impacts that climate change can impose on us.

Our governor is just being proactive as he has been from the get go.
Where did you come up with "hypothesis" or "whether climate change is man-made?" Just curious. Please cite specific studies.
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