[foodyum]

Originally Posted by Corrie22

It would probably help more to have a visual aid....where are the hosp that have no ICU beds

...then are in small counties...that have small hosp

all the major hosp have beds available

and not all ICU beds are occupied by COVID patients

Last Updated: 7/22/2020 at 1:00 p.m. > https://www.wpbf.com/article/florida...ly-21/33379528

I think you are mistaken. My info is from doctor friends who say it’s insane. I don’t know who you are talking to. I am hearing med students have picked up a lot of the heavy lifting.

[Corrie22]

are the links I post invisible?.....there's a link at the bottom of that post

The State of Florida's Agency for Health Care Administration has a database that tracks how many ICU beds are available in each county.

[boy3365]

One is reporting total hospital numbers.
Another one is posting individual stories from individual hospitals.

They are both valid.

[djsuperfly]

Originally Posted by Corrie22

roaring laughing...what "expert" advice?...the expert that said it's not air borne...or the one that said it is
..the expert that said don't wear masks...or the one that said do wear masks
the expert that said take a cruise, go to the mall and movies.....or the one that said don't

everyone is some kind of expert...long after the fact

and these whack jobs never blame the "experts" for being wrong....they only blame the people that took their advice

"What do you mean?" "Let me quote what experts said three months ago, and let me act like info never changes on a novel virus." "Let me act like info never changes on a virus we've never dealt with." "Let me act like we should have the same kind of info on this that we've had on the flu that we've been dealing with for decades."

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Charlie Allnut

Tying Trump to Joseph Goebbels (i.e. Nazi)?
Yep, definitely political partisan post

Do you deny that Trump engages in "Big Lie" propaganda techniques by repeating falsehoods over and over again until his "base" believes they are true???


Trump's repeated false claims about testing are especially disgusting, as he is using them to justify his disastrous opposition to adequate funding for testing and contact tracing.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...avirus/608647/


Do you oppose a massive push to transition to point-of-care testing which would provide almost immediate results and greatly increase our ability to reopen K-12 schools and universities safely?


Do you have no shame in supporting such a blatant and determined liar??? Do you not care about the massive harm that Trump and his enablers have inflicted on our society due to their obvious incompetence in dealing with the COVID-19 epidemic, especially relative to other nations, and their eagerness to adapt bad policies, often subverting our democracy (e.g., by refusing to comply with Congressional oversight) in order to cover their failures?


Floridians are plagued not only by Trump's national policy failures, but also suffer under the policies of Ron DeSantis, not only a Trump enabler but essentially a mini-Trump, Presidential wannabe.

[WRnative]

<<In a whistleblower complaint Jones filed last Thursday with the Florida Commission on Human Relations, her attorneys alleged that she was fired by the state’s Department of Health for “refusing to publish misleading health data....”


“We wanted to be wrong,” Jones told Yahoo News. “What we’re seeing right now is actually far worse than what we anticipated.” Back in May, DeSantis’s combative press secretary dismissed as “alarmist” new projections showing the state suffering 4,000 mortalities from COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. Florida now has more than 5,000 coronavirus fatalities....


Initially hailed as a hero for building an easy-to-comprehend dashboard, Jones claims she was pushed aside when the numbers clashed with DeSantis’s desire to reopen the state.



Last weekend, the state recorded more coronavirus infections than the entire continent of Europe. “This,” Jones says, “is everything I was trying to warn people about.”>>


https://www.yahoo.com/news/a-public-...184810565.html


The above story details how DeSantis threw Florida's rural counties to the COVID-19 wolf even though these counties are (were?) the Republican base in Florida.


<<Jones said she was ordered by Roberson to simply put a “yes” or a “no” next to a county’s reopening outlook, without providing the kind of data-bolstered rationale she had figured would go into the decision. Roberson left for a meeting, so Jones evaded that order. (A private vendor would eventually complete the work Roberson and Blackmore were looking for.)


Going home that evening, Jones wrote to her family on Facebook about the personal disgust she felt at what she perceived as being asked to manipulate data, as well as the danger such a manipulation could prove to unsuspecting Floridians.>>


I'm surprised that there is no push in Florida to provide a Constitutional amendment to allow for the recall of state officials. Such a provision likely would incentivize policy decisions based on expertise rather than political decisions with only hopeful consequences.


<<Florida recall law does not pertain to elected state officials, such as the governor, nor elected federal officials, such as the state's congressional delegates.>>


https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governi...all_in_Florida


By squashing the CDC's long-time role in collecting health data, it appears likely that the Trump administration is following the example set by the DeSantis administration in manipulating COVID-19 health data to the detriment of the public, especially in rural areas.



<<Hospitals and states are scrambling to adopt a new national Covid-19 data reporting system hastily implemented by the Trump administration last week that has left some, mostly rural, states in the dark about the severity of their own coronavirus outbreaks.>>


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/22/us-h...-blackout.html


https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...spitalizations

[Charlie Allnut]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Do you deny that Trump engages in "Big Lie" propaganda techniques by repeating falsehoods over and over again until his "base" believes they are true??? the policies of Ron DeSantis, not only a Trump enabler but essentially a mini-Trump, Presidential wannabe.

WRnative, respectfully, every time you post, your pure hatred for this President drives your narrative. Your sometimes interesting posts are tainted with your emotional and irrational nonsense about Trump.

You rarely write a true thought of your own but just post a myriad of links from websites that are written with human bias.

You disparage anyone that supports the President, Governor, or basically anyone that does not agree with you. Now you are calling him a Nazi? What if I call you a racist because you do not like our Hispanic Governor? Would that make sense?

Basically, your threads/posts have gotten very old. I wish you all the best in Ohio but just remember that
partisanship untethers the mind from objective reality.


Loving Life in Florida!

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Charlie Allnut

WRnative, respectfully, every time you post, your pure hatred for this President drives your narrative. Your sometimes interesting posts are tainted with your emotional and irrational nonsense about Trump.

You rarely write a true thought of your own but just post a myriad of links from websites that are written with human bias.

You disparage anyone that supports the President, Governor, or basically anyone that does not agree with you. Now you are calling him a Nazi? What if I call you a racist because you do not like our Hispanic Governor? Would that make sense?

Basically, your threads/posts have gotten very old. I wish you all the best in Ohio but just remember that
partisanship untethers the mind from objective reality.


Loving Life in Florida!

You're great at levying false and ridiculous charges against me. Where did you learn that skill?

However, I'm perplexed that you WON'T answer the simple question at the heart of my dislike of Trump and his acolytes -- does Trump tell repeated lies about substantive issues with disastrous consequences for our nation???

Do you really believe, like Trump, that increased and improved testing and contract tracing is unnecessary, and that we should not fund these efforts???

Why wouldn't any patriotic American disparage anyone who wallows in "Big Lie" propaganda to the nation's immense detriment???

As we watch the death counts rise, unknown long-term health defects spread among once healthy individuals, food insecurity and homelessness rise, education deficits increase greatly, and treasure wasted, my specific question for you and other like-minded Trump supporters: Do you have no shame????

On issue after issue, your inability to discuss the issues and defend Trump's many falsehoods and your ease at dismissing empirical evidence, clearly proves that at least your inane mutterings are divorced from objective reality (you personally may be just brazenly disingenuous). Turning objective reality on its head, especially when dealing with perceived opponents, is a classical tactic of "Big Lie" propagandists. You are scarily good at it.

Please understand that I'm personally immune to your tactics. Many decades ago, very perplexed about how Nazism had taken hold in a progressive society such as Germany, one of the Great Thinkers that I studied on the topic was Hannah Arendt.

<<In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. ... Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. >>

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quote...ler-herrschaft

I urge anyone to read Arendt's "The Origins of Totalitarianism" to understand the great danger facing American democracy at this moment.

I've probably been lapse in not trying to identify a living Great Thinker who is exposing the risks now facing America due to rise of "Big Lie" propaganda and its tolerance and practice even at Trump news outlets.

Anytime you really want to discuss objective realities, which you seem to dismiss with the determination of a hyena devouring a corpse, I'm game.

BTW, I never called Trump a Nazi, another falsehood on your part. I did compare Trump to Goebbels because, like Goebbels, Trump practices "Big Lie" propaganda tactics. I was going to say that Trump was a master of "Big Lie" propaganda, but compared to Goebbels, Trump, thankfully, is an amateur.

[foodyum]

Originally Posted by Charlie Allnut

WRnative, respectfully, every time you post, your pure hatred for this President drives your narrative. Your sometimes interesting posts are tainted with your emotional and irrational nonsense about Trump.

You rarely write a true thought of your own but just post a myriad of links from websites that are written with human bias.

You disparage anyone that supports the President, Governor, or basically anyone that does not agree with you. Now you are calling him a Nazi? What if I call you a racist because you do not like our Hispanic Governor? Would that make sense?

Basically, your threads/posts have gotten very old. I wish you all the best in Ohio but just remember that
partisanship untethers the mind from objective reality.


Loving Life in Florida!

I read his posts as well as yours. He posts many true FACTS. His opinion of trump is meaningless if he posts the truth. He generally references - something I appreciate- which I will read in its entirety.
I am so disappointed with what I am hearing about the quality of official data in Florida. The governor is responsible for collecting and reporting. I don’t think he can make good decisions without good data. My opinion is that he doesn’t want to make good decisions but rather has a political agenda. I understand that most politicians have a political agenda but he carries it beyond what other governors do. He is an outlier in his refusal to collect good data because it will not support his decisions.

[Jayman1974]

The map shows how many ICU beds are available in each county, not each hospital.

https://www.wpbf.com/article/florida...ly-21/33379528

Just as an example let's look at Walton County. With a population of 74,000, the county has three hospitals based on information at this site.

Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site

According to the map, the number of ICU beds available in the county is four, which suggests that two of the three hospitals could perhaps have no ICU beds available.

Therefore, it's easy to understand (and believe) that roughly 50 hospitals in Florida have no ICU beds.