[Bruiser Brody]

Originally Posted by boy3365

Aren't places like NYC, Boston, etc. the way they are because they experienced exponential growth prior to the advent of cars?

They are the way they are from foolish liberal thinking & policies. The old saying of doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result comes to mind. We do not need that down here. Good for us that we are able to maintain our quality of life by stopping them in their tracks.

[OpinionInOcala]

Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01

The problem is not overpopulation, the problem is that there are no affordable housing options being built.

This is to be expected. Wealthy folks relocate to the state, telecommuters relocate to the state, tourists abound, and the next generation of service workers produced by the native populations wait on them. I wonder if anybody really believes it's a coincidence that a huge portion of new commercial development throughout the state is tied to low-wage work. The folks with the capacity to move here and live a solid middle-class (or above) lifestyle do so -- and I don't blame them. This increases the CoL however, which doesn't work out so well for the large percentage of the state's population of McWorkers who are also the ones producing the lion's share of the new children. This isn't meant to be a dig against anybody, but it is a reality that doesn't get much attention. A vast and perpetual servant class is inherently unhealthy for the prospect of long-term continuity.

[LA33301]

Originally Posted by OpinionInOcala

This is to be expected. Wealthy folks relocate to the state, telecommuters relocate to the state, tourists abound, and the next generation of service workers produced by the native populations wait on them. I wonder if anybody really believes it's a coincidence that a huge portion of new commercial development throughout the state is tied to low-wage work. The folks with the capacity to move here and live a solid middle-class (or above) lifestyle do so -- and I don't blame them. This increases the CoL however, which doesn't work out so well for the large percentage of the state's population of McWorkers who are also the ones producing the lion's share of the new children. This isn't meant to be a dig against anybody, but it is a reality that doesn't get much attention. A vast and perpetual servant class is inherently unhealthy for the prospect of long-term continuity.

Translation: Florida and the USA will be another Brazil in a few years.

[kibblenbitz]

Originally Posted by boy3365

Aren't places like NYC, Boston, etc. the way they are because they experienced exponential growth prior to the advent of cars?

Yes. However, more and more modern cities are starting to go back to that trend, as the massive highway loops extending far outside of a city core is not indicative of proper urban planning, and does not create a cohesive city at all.

[Bruiser Brody]

Originally Posted by kibblenbitz

Yes. However, more and more modern cities are starting to go back to that trend, as the massive highway loops extending far outside of a city core is not indicative of proper urban planning, and does not create a cohesive city at all.

The point is to not be in the city. The way we do things here is to develop outside the city and that is the better way to go. They already screwed it up in the northeast part of the country. We are fortunate here to be able to do it correctly. There is still some development in the city. The majority of the growth is outside the city and that is the way it should be. There are plenty of other places in the country if people want to live in that type of hell. Here in Florida we are doing it the right way with expansive sprawl.

[kibblenbitz]

Originally Posted by Bruiser Brody

The point is to not be in the city. The way we do things here is to develop outside the city and that is the better way to go. They already screwed it up in the northeast part of the country. We are fortunate here to be able to do it correctly. There is still some development in the city. The majority of the growth is outside the city and that is the way it should be. There are plenty of other places in the country if people want to live in that type of hell. Here in Florida we are doing it the right way with expansive sprawl.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not...
Anyway,

No, the point is for developers to acquire cheap land. The cities (Tampa, Miami, Orlando) are still incredibly congested within their cores, so the sprawl isn't doing anything to help. If anything, it is making matters worse, as we are needing tons of massive highways converging into a central node to make these crazy commutes possible.
The ONLY reason why there is such sprawly development in sunbelt cities is because of cheap land. There is no reason to keep building more cheap stucco subdivisions in places like Chuluota/Bithlo other than cheap land: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5704...!7i3328!8i1664

Or to literally destroy what was once the rural town of Clermont to turn it into another sprawly congested suburban mess. We already have those in Sanford, Lake Mary, Altamonte, Apopka, etc. And there is still plenty of land there to develop. But developers want to buy a large patch of cheap land and cram as many cheap stucco houses onto it to reap the biggest profits ever. We'll let FDOT figure out how to route traffic after everyone has moved in, right? And then realize, of wait, we don't even have a bus line that runs out there!

And now we're set to destroy another small town, where people live precisely to get away from the city and suburban sprawly junk, in Sorrento, with yet more massive highways, and more cheaply-built stucco homes.
There is nothing smart about that, and no, it does not "work." I-4 is deemed the ****tiest highway in the country, and with good reason.

No city planner or urban developer thinks "expansive sprawl" is the right way to develop.

[Bruiser Brody]

Originally Posted by kibblenbitz

I can't tell if you're trolling or not...
Anyway,

No, the point is for developers to acquire cheap land. The cities (Tampa, Miami, Orlando) are still incredibly congested within their cores, so the sprawl isn't doing anything to help. If anything, it is making matters worse, as we are needing tons of massive highways converging into a central node to make these crazy commutes possible.
The ONLY reason why there is such sprawly development in sunbelt cities is because of cheap land. There is no reason to keep building more cheap stucco subdivisions in places like Chuluota/Bithlo other than cheap land: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5704...!7i3328!8i1664

Or to literally destroy what was once the rural town of Clermont to turn it into another sprawly congested suburban mess. We already have those in Sanford, Lake Mary, Altamonte, Apopka, etc. And there is still plenty of land there to develop. But developers want to buy a large patch of cheap land and cram as many cheap stucco houses onto it to reap the biggest profits ever. We'll let FDOT figure out how to route traffic after everyone has moved in, right? And then realize, of wait, we don't even have a bus line that runs out there!

And now we're set to destroy another small town, where people live precisely to get away from the city and suburban sprawly junk, in Sorrento, with yet more massive highways, and more cheaply-built stucco homes.
There is nothing smart about that, and no, it does not "work." I-4 is deemed the ****tiest highway in the country, and with good reason.

No city planner or urban developer thinks "expansive sprawl" is the right way to develop.

Just because you do not see the reason does not mean there is not a reason. Just look at what has happened with this covid thing. Why on earth would people want to congest into a city? This is just one of many reasons why building away from the city is the better way to go. Not just houses. Housing, dining, shopping and employment. Keep people from having to crowd into a city. That way there will be less driving and not everyone who does drive will be going the same direction. Making everyone congest into the city have failed everywhere it has been tried. This is why Florida is such a huge success. We are doing it the right way.

[mrviking]

With all the growth Florida has had through the years. Over two thirds of Florida is undeveloped. I believe it was 2070 before 1/3 is developed using current projections.

[kibblenbitz]

Originally Posted by Bruiser Brody

Just because you do not see the reason does not mean there is not a reason. Just look at what has happened with this covid thing. Why on earth would people want to congest into a city? This is just one of many reasons why building away from the city is the better way to go. Not just houses. Housing, dining, shopping and employment. Keep people from having to crowd into a city. That way there will be less driving and not everyone who does drive will be going the same direction. Making everyone congest into the city have failed everywhere it has been tried. This is why Florida is such a huge success. We are doing it the right way.

Are you aware that Florida has one of the highest numbers of COVID-19 infections in the country?
Congested sprawl like we have here isn't helping -- it's spreading it. It's not like our suburbs are peaceful and quiet -- they're congested and full of people too. Have you been to Altamonte, Maitland, Longwood, etc., lately? That's not "getting away from the city." That's potentially having a bigger house with a bit of yard space for much cheaper than you would in city limits.
Small spread out towns in Southern Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas have some of the highest infection rates in the country. Some higher than in NYC.
Meanwhile, per capita, San Francisco, the second most dense city in the country, is faring pretty well compared to other sprawly cities.
NYC was bound to be screwed thanks to its numerous busy airports and shipyards, busy bringing in exports and tourists from all over the world.

Also, I did not say there is not a reason. I actually pointed out the reason, and it's land cost -- nothing else.

[Bruiser Brody]

Originally Posted by kibblenbitz

Are you aware that Florida has one of the highest numbers of COVID-19 infections in the country?
Congested sprawl like we have here isn't helping -- it's spreading it. It's not like our suburbs are peaceful and quiet -- they're congested and full of people too. Have you been to Altamonte, Maitland, Longwood, etc., lately? That's not "getting away from the city." That's potentially having a bigger house with a bit of yard space for much cheaper than you would in city limits.
Small spread out towns in Southern Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas have some of the highest infection rates in the country. Some higher than in NYC.
Meanwhile, per capita, San Francisco, the second most dense city in the country, is faring pretty well compared to other sprawly cities.
NYC was bound to be screwed thanks to its numerous busy airports and shipyards, busy bringing in exports and tourists from all over the world.

Also, I did not say there is not a reason. I actually pointed out the reason, and it's land cost -- nothing else.

The area in Florida with the highest number of cases is the extremely liberal southeast portion. More evidence of how not to run things. Overall we are doing great and that is even more apparent when factoring in that we are the third largest state in the nation. Most counties are doing quite well. The only issues are the liberal areas with poor planning and leadership.

We can agree to disagree and I can be very happy as Florida is doing it exactly as I like and will continue to do so until well after my time on earth is done.