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View Poll Results: Why do Northerners move to Florida usually and not vice versa?
The COL/taxes are lower, even after paying for hurricane/sinkhole insurance and high sales taxes. 16 33.33%
Because blizzards and the cold are even worse than hurricanes and humidity. 32 66.67%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-09-2020, 12:10 PM
 
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The weather in the winter.
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Old 07-09-2020, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Chicago =)
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The only reason I would move to florida to retire: So I can live in a single family home without having to shovel the driveway.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by japster28 View Post
The only reason I would move to florida to retire: So I can live in a single family home without having to shovel the driveway.

Things you will hate about single family homes in Florida:
1) Mowing the lawn from May till October, unbearable heat and humidity.
2) Homeowner's insurance, it can cost you more than your property taxes on you home up north.
3) HOAs... some are as bad as those parody commercial
4) Hurricanes. Power outages. Filing Homeowners Claim - Getting denied - Hiring a lawyer - Suing the Insurance Company - After 2 years settle for half of the repairs (Because damage left 2 years escalates into larger problem... that's just the process.
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Old 07-10-2020, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Woodbury, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006 View Post
Things you will hate about single family homes in Florida:
1) Mowing the lawn from May till October, unbearable heat and humidity.
2) Homeowner's insurance, it can cost you more than your property taxes on you home up north.
3) HOAs... some are as bad as those parody commercial
4) Hurricanes. Power outages. Filing Homeowners Claim - Getting denied - Hiring a lawyer - Suing the Insurance Company - After 2 years settle for half of the repairs (Because damage left 2 years escalates into larger problem... that's just the process.
Some of those things have easy solutions.

Hire someone to mow your lawn. I mow my own lawn in Minnesota, but I hire someone to remove the snow from my driveway and sidewalk. When there's just a little snow, below the threshold, I have to remove the snow myself. I've thought about hiring someone to mow my lawn, but I haven't done that yet. In Florida, I will absolutely hire someone to mow the lawn. No need for the snow removal in Florida!

I've heard that the homeowners insurance is about a thousand dollars or less in central Florida. You'd need to insure for the home, plus wind, plus flooding, plus sinkholes. So, it could cost more. If you live close to the coastline, the insurance is going to be a lot more expensive. The older homes are more expensive too. The homes with higher wind profiles are more expensive too.

HOA's impact can be reduced by carefully choosing an HOA that is not too strict.

Power outages can be easily solved by installing a whole house electric generator, either natural gas if it is available or propane. A gasoline electric generator could be used, but re-filling the gas tank in the middle of the storm would be very annoying! Keeping a lot of gasoline around would also be unsafe. You'd also have to have a very heavy concrete block pad embedded into the ground, and attach a metal cage to the concrete pad to prevent theft of your portable gasoline generator.

Dealing with the insurance company can be a pain no matter where you live. We needed to have our roof replaced. The first insurance estimator was going to give us only a couple squares of roofing shingles. The second insurance estimator was going to give us about 1/4 of the roof. The third insurance estimator was going to give us more than half the roof. The next step was arbitration, which we didn't do because the result would have been risky. We went with the third insurance estimator offer. The insurance company was hoping that we would go with the first or second insurance estimators offer. Some customers with claims probably don't go through the hassle and time delay of getting more estimates. Then the insurance company saves money. It's better to get the repairs started sooner than later, and try to get the money from the insurance company after the repairs, which has some risk.

All of these things to reduce the problems and annoyances have one thing in common. Money. If you're able to add money to the equation, then you can fix a lot of problems. I'd much rather add money to fix those problems than add money to paying income taxes to a state that wastes most of the tax money on unnecessary things and gives out a lot of money to able bodied freeloaders, and also give the able bodied freeloaders, that are too lazy to work, the "free stuff" they want. It would be different if the people were disabled and truly needed the help, but there are just too many able bodied freeloaders in my state that are milking the system.

The other draw to Florida, beside the no state income tax, is the weather. No long cold and snowy winters. Even in the middle of the summertime in Florida, you can get out in the morning or the late afternoon or evening. So, at least you can get outside part of the day, nearly every day of the year. You could also take trips in the summertime to cooler locations. In the snow belt states, you're stuck inside 24 x 7 for more than six months every year. That's why there's the term "cabin fever".
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Old 07-10-2020, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Ohio
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Originally Posted by davephan View Post
The other draw to Florida, beside the no state income tax, is the weather. No long cold and snowy winters. Even in the middle of the summertime in Florida, you can get out in the morning or the late afternoon or evening. So, at least you can get outside part of the day, nearly every day of the year. You could also take trips in the summertime to cooler locations. In the snow belt states, you're stuck inside 24 x 7 for more than six months every year. That's why there's the term "cabin fever".
Yeah, this is where I see the "snowbirds" come into play. Me, personally, I could never live in Florida. No offense to the great people or the state, it's just that the Summers are too brutal for my liking. Heck, this summer thus far in Ohio has been brutal in my book, but then I talk to my family in Florida and WOW.

But, I think as you get older, being able to enjoy the outdoors improves the quality of life. Sure, one can enjoy winter activities, but how many 70 or 80 year olds to you see snowboarding? Like my grandparents did, they lived in Florida 9 months out of the year and returned to Ohio in the summer. Sure, it gets hot and humid here, but not like Florida. But for them, being able to have a 365 day a year where they could take a walk, sit out with their friends, whatever, improved their quality of life. And I think the people who move to Florida full-time perhaps see it the same way. And some people love the heat, so 12 months out of the year in Florida is perfect.

I like Winter though, to be honest. I like the snow...when I'm not driving in bad snow. I like the winter clothing too. Maybe I'm weird. BUT, I can certainly see why people don't like winter, or at least get really tired of it.

Just like I don't feel like people were meant to work in cubicles. Perhaps people weren't meant to stay inside for half a year either, thus why more people move South than North.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:43 PM
 
235 posts, read 35,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davephan View Post
Some of those things have easy solutions.

Hire someone to mow your lawn. I mow my own lawn in Minnesota, but I hire someone to remove the snow from my driveway and sidewalk. When there's just a little snow, below the threshold, I have to remove the snow myself. I've thought about hiring someone to mow my lawn, but I haven't done that yet. In Florida, I will absolutely hire someone to mow the lawn. No need for the snow removal in Florida!

I've heard that the homeowners insurance is about a thousand dollars or less in central Florida. You'd need to insure for the home, plus wind, plus flooding, plus sinkholes. So, it could cost more. If you live close to the coastline, the insurance is going to be a lot more expensive. The older homes are more expensive too. The homes with higher wind profiles are more expensive too.

HOA's impact can be reduced by carefully choosing an HOA that is not too strict.

Power outages can be easily solved by installing a whole house electric generator, either natural gas if it is available or propane. A gasoline electric generator could be used, but re-filling the gas tank in the middle of the storm would be very annoying! Keeping a lot of gasoline around would also be unsafe. You'd also have to have a very heavy concrete block pad embedded into the ground, and attach a metal cage to the concrete pad to prevent theft of your portable gasoline generator.

Dealing with the insurance company can be a pain no matter where you live. We needed to have our roof replaced. The first insurance estimator was going to give us only a couple squares of roofing shingles. The second insurance estimator was going to give us about 1/4 of the roof. The third insurance estimator was going to give us more than half the roof. The next step was arbitration, which we didn't do because the result would have been risky. We went with the third insurance estimator offer. The insurance company was hoping that we would go with the first or second insurance estimators offer. Some customers with claims probably don't go through the hassle and time delay of getting more estimates. Then the insurance company saves money. It's better to get the repairs started sooner than later, and try to get the money from the insurance company after the repairs, which has some risk.

All of these things to reduce the problems and annoyances have one thing in common. Money. If you're able to add money to the equation, then you can fix a lot of problems. I'd much rather add money to fix those problems than add money to paying income taxes to a state that wastes most of the tax money on unnecessary things and gives out a lot of money to able bodied freeloaders, and also give the able bodied freeloaders, that are too lazy to work, the "free stuff" they want. It would be different if the people were disabled and truly needed the help, but there are just too many able bodied freeloaders in my state that are milking the system.

The other draw to Florida, beside the no state income tax, is the weather. No long cold and snowy winters. Even in the middle of the summertime in Florida, you can get out in the morning or the late afternoon or evening. So, at least you can get outside part of the day, nearly every day of the year. You could also take trips in the summertime to cooler locations. In the snow belt states, you're stuck inside 24 x 7 for more than six months every year. That's why there's the term "cabin fever".

If you are shoveling snow up north, you'll be mowing the lawn in Florida. Money makes life easier, that's just a fact of life. If you happen to have oak trees, or tall growth, you are required in most insurance policies to have it removed, I had to drop $4200 last year on a 250 ft oak tree. Landscapers can't nor would they be able to do that.


If you heard homeowners insurance policy is a thousand or under, you heard wrong. Maybe in the 90's, but those days were long gone. My 2Br 2Ba 800sq ft home was $3800. After filing the Irma claim, it is now $7200.


HOAs down here have too much power, change directors too often, and are often run by older people with nothing to do all say. I've avoided them when I bought, and do not regret it after hearing countless acts of pettiness, fines, and even imposing a lien on the property for having a classic weekend car IN the driveway. No Thanks.


I agree dealing with insurance is a pain everywhere, but in Florida with annual hurricanes it is an event you WILL have to deal with in frequency. I've had to file 2 claims on my property. First claim was for $14,000 in damage. I went ahead got repairs done, priced out 3 companies choose the cheapest, got repairs done, fought with the insurance company for 2 years. Ended up settling in mediation for 9,000 - 2500 deductable just to be done with it. The sticking point with the mediator was that although I got the standard 3 quotes, and exceeded standards by taking the cheapest, the insurance was bring estimates from their hired guns 1/4 of the estimates and cost to repair. 2nd claim was Irma, it took my roof, and I mean took it.Gone new glassless skylight. Insurance adjuster took 2 months to come to my home (because of the volume of claims). Hired a lawyer this time, was advised to NOT do repairs until settlement because the damage was so excessive they will fight it due to it being close to the total policy. He was right, took 2 years to settle and overall cost $20,000 more because of time passing. Once again, if you have money this isnt a problem.


Power outages are only easily solved by the rich. Backup generators are real espensive, and if your county operates like a mafia, they will permit you to give up. Gas generators are the preferred method, buy during a natural disaster you better be prepared to guard it, and stock up on 5 days of gas, (the stations are out for nearly a week).


If you don't want to pay because the needy or lazy get some of it, then in Florida it's not much better. More people live on assistance than most states due to unlivable wages and poverty. State income tax is an added expense, but when you have kids in public schools it's worth it. Comparestares with csb without state income k-12 and you will see the difference. I entered into a university in orlando and many students struggled to read and were incapable of understanding 1000 level classes. Very telling. Plus no state income tax ,= less infastructure investments. Road projects that take decades, and toll roads everywhere. You are paying one way or another.


End of the day, if you have.money you can be happy anywhere. The says of the middle class retiring here comfortably is ending. Good Homes are not 80-150k anymore, they are 275-350k now. Some cities like Miami, Tampa, and Orlando it can be more. There are other cheaper states to move down to without snow.
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:28 PM
 
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My snap answer to the poll question is "yes".
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Old 07-12-2020, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Woodbury, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006 View Post
If you are shoveling snow up north, you'll be mowing the lawn in Florida.
I contract a company to remove the snow from my driveway and sidewalk in Minnesota. Sometimes, I do have to shovel the snow if it's a light snow below the snow removal company's removal threshold. That's annoying when I have to shovel light snows. That problem could be fixed if I replaced my driveway with a heating tubes imbedded in the concrete. The heated driveway melts the light snows. That would be expensive to install that type of system. It would be cheaper to have a higher level commercial snow removal contract to decrease the snow removal threshold level. But I do mow my own lawn. I've been thinking about hiring a company to mow my lawn, like my neighbor does. In Florida, I would absolutely hire a company to mow my lawn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006 View Post
If you are shoveling snow up north, you'll be mowing the lawn in Florida. Money makes life easier, that's just a fact of life. If you happen to have oak trees, or tall growth, you are required in most insurance policies to have it removed, I had to drop $4200 last year on a 250 ft oak tree. Landscapers can't nor would they be able to do that.
I don't like oak trees that grow close to a home. Older oak trees rot from the inside out, and can seriously damage your home. It sounds like you had a very large oak tree very close to your home that had to taken down very carefully in small pieces, which would have been more expensive, than if the tree wasn't too close to your home or a neighbors home. I don't like rules in place that don't allow you to cut down ugly trees that drop acorns all over your driveway or cars.

One of my in laws had a large dead oak tree near his house, and it cost about $1,800 to have the tree cut down carefully in small pieces. His neighbor has a large dead oak tree that might fall on either house. That neighbor was too cheap to spend the $1,800 to remove that dead oak tree. When I heard those prices, I though that wasn't expensive at all. Compare that to the risk if you tried to cut the tree down yourself. You could be permanently injured or killed trying to do that work yourself. It's better to know your limits and let the professional do that work! If the dead oak tree damages my in law's house, that will be a lawsuit. If it injured or killed someone, that would be a financially life changing lawsuit. I think his neighbor is pretty stupid to not get that dead oak tree removed. It's a ticking time bomb!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006 View Post
If you heard homeowners insurance policy is a thousand or under, you heard wrong. Maybe in the 90's, but those days were long gone. My 2Br 2Ba 800sq ft home was $3800. After filing the Irma claim, it is now $7200.
I heard from people in "The Villages" that they pay about $1,000 a year for home insurance. That's in central Florida, maybe you don't like close to that area. If your home is older, insurance costs a lot more. Is your home block or stick built?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006 View Post
I agree dealing with insurance is a pain everywhere, but in Florida with annual hurricanes it is an event you WILL have to deal with in frequency. I've had to file 2 claims on my property. First claim was for $14,000 in damage. I went ahead got repairs done, priced out 3 companies choose the cheapest, got repairs done, fought with the insurance company for 2 years. Ended up settling in mediation for 9,000 - 2500 deductable just to be done with it. The sticking point with the mediator was that although I got the standard 3 quotes, and exceeded standards by taking the cheapest, the insurance was bring estimates from their hired guns 1/4 of the estimates and cost to repair. 2nd claim was Irma, it took my roof, and I mean took it.Gone new glassless skylight. Insurance adjuster took 2 months to come to my home (because of the volume of claims). Hired a lawyer this time, was advised to NOT do repairs until settlement because the damage was so excessive they will fight it due to it being close to the total policy. He was right, took 2 years to settle and overall cost $20,000 more because of time passing. Once again, if you have money this isnt a problem.
I don't think the majority of people in Florida have to file for insurance claims multiple times within a ten year time span. I haven't got the impression from talking to people who live in Florida that they have to file insurance claims every few years. I've talked to people who lived in Florida for decades and never had to file insurance claims. I'd be interested in hearing from more long term Florida residents who had to file many insurance claims.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006 View Post
HOAs down here have too much power, change directors too often, and are often run by older people with nothing to do all say. I've avoided them when I bought, and do not regret it after hearing countless acts of pettiness, fines, and even imposing a lien on the property for having a classic weekend car IN the driveway. No Thanks.
I don't care for the restrictions that are so severe that you can't park your car on your own driveway. The restrictions should be balanced right so that you don't have neighbors parking boats, RVs, trailers, and dead cars on their driveways. The restrictions should be enough so that you don't have neighbors with trashy run down houses with front lawns that are tall weeds or bare dirt, that are covered with old junk like dead cars, old refrigerators and toilets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006 View Post
Power outages are only easily solved by the rich. Backup generators are real espensive, and if your county operates like a mafia, they will permit you to give up. Gas generators are the preferred method, buy during a natural disaster you better be prepared to guard it, and stock up on 5 days of gas, (the stations are out for nearly a week).
I've price whole house generators, and they were about $10K, which doesn't seem that expensive to me. But we're probably budgeting $400K to $500K for the home. We could pay more, but it would have to be something really spectacular to invest much more than that in a house. I'm not sure what you mean about "they will permit you to give up". Maybe you mean that they county might tax you a lot of money to have the whole house generator installed.

I have thought about the gasoline generator situation. I'd need probably have about 10 to 20 five gallon gas containers, and fill the gas containers up before the gas stations get busy or run out of fuel, not wait until the last minute. I do have a possible solution for guarding your portable gasoline generator. Long before the hurricane season, install a concrete slab that's created by pouring a big block of concrete into the ground. Imbed metal into the top of the concrete so that you can lock a metal cage that you either buy or have built by a welder. The metal cage will enclose the gasoline generator, making it much more difficult to steal. It's unlikely that a criminal will spend a lot of time to cut the metal cage to steal the generator, since it would be much easier, quicker, and less chance of being caught, to steal the neighbor's portable generator that is totally unprotected. I don't know why people that own portable gasoline generators don't prepare in advance to protect their portable generator with a metal security cage.

I often see people in Florida flooding the stores at the last minute before hurricanes to buy plywood, water, batteries, and things like that. Why don't people buy those things months in advance and simply store those things in their home, instead of waiting until the last minute to buy those things? It's not hard to buy about 16 to 20 large cases of water, dozens of batteries, flashlights, and things like that. For decades, I never let my car's gasoline tank drop below half full. Sometimes I fill up after about 100 miles on the tank. I have in laws who let their tank get almost empty. I've lived that way all my life. You never know when a crisis might happen. For example, during the social unrest in Minnesota, the gasoline stations closed due to the potential violence. I was going to top off my lawn mowing gas can and I couldn't because the gasoline station was closed in the early afternoon due to the social unrest. I always keep enough gas on hand to mow my lawn at least two or three times. There was another person at the gas station said that their car's gas tank was empty and they might not be able to drive far enough to find a gasoline station that was open or drive back home. Some people never live their lives trying to prepare for potential problems. You can't prepare for every situation, but you can prepare for your basic needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006 View Post
If you don't want to pay because the needy or lazy get some of it, then in Florida it's not much better. More people live on assistance than most states due to unlivable wages and poverty. State income tax is an added expense, but when you have kids in public schools it's worth it. Comparestares with csb without state income k-12 and you will see the difference. I entered into a university in orlando and many students struggled to read and were incapable of understanding 1000 level classes. Very telling. Plus no state income tax ,= less infastructure investments. Road projects that take decades, and toll roads everywhere. You are paying one way or another.
Hopefully, there won't be as many able bodied freeloaders in Florida than there are in Minnesota that are scamming the system. I know people that work in the Social Services industry that find people that are milking the system, and they are highly encourage to look the other way, and let the able bodied freeloaders get the public assistance. Part of this is building up an empire for the people who manage the Social Services system.

I know about the toll roads in Florida. Most of them seem to be around Orlando. But the toll roads are nothing compared to Texas, where the tolls are on steroids! Having a SunPass or equivalent transponder on your car to me is a "no brainer". I'm amazed by the residents in Florida that pay with cash, when they could avoid having to stop to pay the tolls, and they could get discounts on the tolls if they bought a transponder and setup an account. Much of these problems are caused by not trying to think ahead of problems. I did the same things during my IT career, working on computer systems. Doing things to prevent problems from occurring, not always preventing problems, but significantly reduce the risk of computer system outages.

It's a sad commentary what has happened to the education system in the past several decades. Many young people are really stupid. They don't know math, they don't know history, and they don't know how to think logically. The education system has been a place where the young people become indoctrinated with the extremest leftist political ideas. Many young people actually think that Socialism and Communism are good ideas!
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
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Originally Posted by davephan View Post

I often see people in Florida flooding the stores at the last minute before hurricanes to buy plywood, water, batteries, and things like that. Why don't people buy those things months in advance and simply store those things in their home, instead of waiting until the last minute to buy those things? It's not hard to buy about 16 to 20 large cases of water, dozens of batteries, flashlights, and things like that.
Lack of storage space plays into that a lot. Maybe 1% of homes here have a basement, and a lot, I'd guess the majority, of homes built before 1970 or so had either a one car garage, a carport, or neither garage nor carport. We've got a proper two car garage but also too much stuff in general and when we buy water a couple of days before a storm, the gallon jugs sit in our dining room until they get used up.
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Woodbury, MN
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Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
Lack of storage space plays into that a lot. Maybe 1% of homes here have a basement, and a lot, I'd guess the majority, of homes built before 1970 or so had either a one car garage, a carport, or neither garage nor carport. We've got a proper two car garage but also too much stuff in general and when we buy water a couple of days before a storm, the gallon jugs sit in our dining room until they get used up.
That would be a good reason to have an extra bedroom! More storage space! A stack of about 16 cases of water doesn't take up that much space. But if you needed a lot more water, you could buy the collapsable water storage containers. Those containers could be stored in a tiny amount of space when not in use and they could be filled up with your municipal water before the storm.

Even some new homes have one car garages! I've seen some new developments, where they try to pack as many houses as possible into the development. Many houses have single car garages! The houses look nearly identical, except for the house numbers. I'd prefer to have a three car garage, but never less than a two car garage!
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