[cowpat5]

Where I lived in NY is more affordable than FL now. Lol. Started seriously looking for a house last month and wow... I can't believe the little dumps that are being sold for 200, 225, even 250k. 250k used to buy you a really nice place. Even just a couple years ago. If you're not making at least $30/hr in FL you're going to have a really bad time. Even then... $30/hr is peanuts nowadays.

[firmbizzle]

Originally Posted by 1insider

Rents have gotten so high in our beach towns that servers and other lower income workers are forced to live elsewhere. It's the same thing that happened in the small ski towns in the Rockies. That minimum wage job on the beach will usually require living across the bridge/s somewhere that the low wage can cover and that comes with increased commute costs.

The number of long-term rentals in the beach towns (the ones that don't restrict short term rentals) is shrinking as investors are buying up properties and converting them to vacation rentals. Cocoa Beach has lost a significant number of long-term rentals that are now AirBnBs.

Isn't this how it is in most popular places like NYC, SF, etc.?

[cowpat5]

It's not right..!!

[firmbizzle]

Originally Posted by Atari2600

I think this is somewhat of a misrepresentation... though I'm not saying your wrong, but there is a reason for it.


Florida is VERY unique in the people that move here. It's currently the most diverse state in the entire Union, and some say one of the most diverse in the world.


I don't want people to get carried away with politics with what I'm saying (it's not really important), but the vast majority of Florida's new residents are:


- Ultra-wealthy people fleeing South and Central American socialist countries and moving to Miami.
- Wealthy people fleeing South and Central American socialist countries and moving to Kendal, Homestead, Orlando, Tampa
- Middle class people (same as above) moving to Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonville, etc.
- Wealthy people from California, New York, Chicago moving to Florida to get away from excessive taxes and aggressive policies in their former states.
- Military moving with BIG BHAs to one of the ~50+ military sites in Florida (the most of almost any state)




It went *insane* the past two years, but the HEAVY migration from South and Central America really started about ~6-8 years ago... before that it was really just Cubans that fled to Florida, with Haitians and Jamaicans just generally looking for more opportunity, but generally not the same as "fleeing."




Why I'm saying this is because the cost of living has shot up SO dramatically because of this, but the majority of these people are not actually working. They don't necessarily use the resources that many of these businesses are producing, and are generally only using service businesses (internet, restaurants, shops, etc.).



So the businesses who once operated here... let's say, a biomedical research company, or perhaps a company that writes software for car insurance companies. Nothing has changed for them, except that there are fewer people that can afford to live there. These companies cannot magically pay more... because they aren't necessarily getting more business from say, a wealthy Venezuelan who's more or less early retired.


On the other hand, as wealthier people move in, the middle-class families move out and take their cash and move north. So... restaurants (for example), aren't necessarily getting teenagers like they used to. Because if you've ever lived in and around Aventura, Miami Beach, or even places like Hyde Park in Tampa... the teens who go to the high schools in those areas generally don't work. Some due, but many of them, they spend their weekends spending their parents money. I'm not criticizing that, there's nothing wrong with that... but there's a lower and middle-income shortage of workers.


In many places of Florida, you have million dollar mansions one street away from a crack house because of gentrification, so the people who WOULD work these jobs, likely CAN'T be hired because of felonies and drug use.





You end up with people who can only commute in to town, and who's going to drive an hour into Tampa (from the suburbs) just to work at Whole Foods or a crappy company that writes insurance software?





Florida has always been really, really good about a lot of things... but the growth that Florida has seen over the past 10 years has been so astronomical that it's totally unsustainable. It's not the state's fault... unless you want to blame them for being so awesome and accommodating. But it does have a down-side... and that's only people who can afford it are moving down here, and many of them work from home. I now work from home, and both my neighbors work from home... it's crazy.




It will take three things to fix this:


1 - Florida needs to dramatically improve it's infrastructure (which has historically always been some of the best in the country anyway). What I mean is... many of the common roads need to be turned into 2 and 3-lane roads. Traffic has become almost impossible.


2 - People need to stop moving to Florida so things can "catch up" (and that is unlikely to happen, everyone wants to move here)


3 - Big employers need to be willing to move into suburban areas, like off Powerline road in South Florida, or possibly in relatively undeveloped (but not protected) lands off major highways.





Right now, everyone wants to live "their best life" and be as close to the city centers as possible, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, etc... and it creates massive congestion, which in turn is a net-negative for people who make less and do the lower income jobs, while the companies don't necessarily make any more... so they can't pay more.

Incredible post! One of the best in months.

[foodyum]

Originally Posted by firmbizzle

Isn't this how it is in most popular places like NYC, SF, etc.?

No. There are no airb&bs in nyc. It is illegal. Likely any condo or coop or even rental neighbor would report you because no one wants that happening where they live. You could rent out a room but that is usually against the condo, coop or rental lease as well.
There are many many units of subsidized housing and a lottery system for renting an apartment at reduced rent if you are income eligible.
Not sure about SF, but I am guessing their are similar policies.

[firmbizzle]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

part of the problem is the United State immigration policies make it too easy for one to move here regardless of income level. We don't need immigrants flooding here, legal, illegal and the likes. The US is getting too crowded in general.


Rush Limbaugh talked about this on his show once. How it's too easy to get into the US, but then Mexico has all kinds of restrictions in place, requirements if you want to immigrate and purchase property there.


The US allows foreign control of assets too easily. This is all part of the NWO and "global economy" that's anti nationalist.

The US is not getting "too crowded". Do you realize how much land we have here? Also, Americans aren't producing enough babies to sustain the population and economy. Without immigrants there won't be enough young people working to support the older people (like Japan). Mexico has a near perfect demographic pyramid, that's why they aren't letting anyone in.

[cowpat5]

Don't have to look at a graph made by who knows who... lines and colors don't mean much. Just look with your eyes. It's not looking good buddy.

[firmbizzle]

Originally Posted by foodyum

No. There are no airb&bs in nyc. It is illegal. Likely any condo or coop or even rental neighbor would report you because no one wants that happening where they live. You could rent out a room but that is usually against the condo, coop or rental lease as well.
There are many many units of subsidized housing and a lottery system for renting an apartment at reduced rent if you are income eligible.
Not sure about SF, but I am guessing their are similar policies.

I meant that don't most of the lower income workers have to commute in from other areas everyday? In south FL, I don't know how that would be done but in Orlando eventually the SunRail will allow folks to commute in from Volusia and Osceola more frequently.

[foodyum]

Originally Posted by firmbizzle

I meant that don't most of the lower income workers have to commute in from other areas everyday? In south FL, I don't know how that would be done but in Orlando eventually the SunRail will allow folks to commute in from Volusia and Osceola more frequently.

No.
Poor live next to rich, often in even in the same building with the new rental landscape.
NYC has always had very rich and very poor living mere blocks away.
Also, even if you live far from your work, a subway token is not expensive to costs to commute are not a factor. Florida is much more of a car culture and it would take a lot to change that.
Millions of people ride the subway everyday and residents are used to living, working, commuting, shopping and going to school with a wide range of socio economic neighbors. Florida lifestyle and culture is much more economically segregated. Wealthy in Florida don’t like to live near poor and the housing situation supports that desire.