[boy3365]

Originally Posted by Ghaati

If all you care about is a 6-figure income, then sure - you'll make bank as a plumber or electrictian. Assuming a) you have the mental skills to learn the trade and b) the physical skills to implement your education.

Now, assuming you are eligible mentally and physically to perform the tasks required of a skilled tradesman, you also should consider your actual interest in DOING that kind of work for the bulk of your working life.

etcetera

Really good points. I believe that instead of pushing one option, whether that is college, trade, military, business straight out of high school, kids just need to be exposed to the myriad of options. I think over-glamorizing certain fields and tying people's worth of what they do is what got us into the mess we are today with student loan debt. And people are now starting to glamorize the trades.

Like you so eloquently described, we must talk about the pros and cons of different fields. You're not going to get a law degree and have a lifestyle like "For the People" working 40 hours or less a week. Be prepared to log a lot more than that. Same with consulting and many other degree-requiring jobs.

Today's "I want to be a movie star or pop singer/rapper" is "social media influencer" or YouTube star. Many may trash 9-5 jobs and appear to be living glamorous lives, but the ones who are actually successful aren't telling you the nitty gritty details of what they do to keep things up that aren't so glamorous.

[Ghaati]

Originally Posted by boy3365

Really good points. I believe that instead of pushing one option, whether that is college, trade, military, business straight out of high school, kids just need to be exposed to the myriad of options. I think over-glamorizing certain fields and tying people's worth of what they do is what got us into the mess we are today with student loan debt. And people are now starting to glamorize the trades.

Like you so eloquently described, we must talk about the pros and cons of different fields. You're not going to get a law degree and have a lifestyle like "For the People" working 40 hours or less a week. Be prepared to log a lot more than that. Same with consulting and many other degree-requiring jobs.

Today's "I want to be a movie star or pop singer/rapper" is "social media influencer" or YouTube star. Many may trash 9-5 jobs and appear to be living glamorous lives, but the ones who are actually successful aren't telling you the nitty gritty details of what they do to keep things up that aren't so glamorous.

Exactly. Minimum wage is what supports millions of people - MOST of whom just want to survive long enough to improve their situation - whatever that situation may be.

Some might be living at home with the parents, comfortably, not struggling at all or wanting for anything. But they want to move out and support themselves. Some of them are helping their families out due to one or another misfortune (disability, company closure and subsequent job loss, unxpected added expense such as fire or hurricane damage, etc etc)

So many real actual situations - that the 'exception' becomes the rule. And the rule is: minimum wage needs to be a living wage.

I don't know what the Fed are "allowed" to do regarding minimum wages but it'd probably be a lot more palatable if they could do it on a scale, based on the cost of living in each state rather than the national CoL index. Then each state can break it down further by county or region or what have you, if they choose.

[beachmouse]

Originally Posted by cfenn006

Doubling labor costs overnight is undeniably unfair to businesses.

The current minimum wage in Florida is $8.56 The minimum wage in the state goes up to $10/hour in September 2021. The math does not line up with the assertion that this is 'doubling labor costs overnight'.

[cfenn006]

Originally Posted by beachmouse

The current minimum wage in Florida is $8.56 The minimum wage in the state goes up to $10/hour in September 2021. The math does not line up with the assertion that this is 'doubling labor costs overnight'.

What was your point with that comment???

I noted that on page 26:

"It ultimately increased the minimum Wage to $15, but only after a few years. The first increase begins at $10, then increases either $11 or $12 the next year, working this way till it ultimately reaches $15. This way employers can make adjustments to the increases."

Then stated it was a big reason WHY the $15 increase wasn't immediately instituted:

"Investments in automation and technology (POS System, Self Check Out, Inventory System, Warehousing Systems). Doubling labor costs overnight is undeniably unfair to businesses. Annual increases in this manner allows owners and management the opportunity to renegotiate contracts, make upgrades, make repairs, and other planned measures that increase efficiency or reduce long term costs that would offset labor expenses."

Were you not following the thread or wanted to make some kind of point by pulling a single sentence from my comment?

[leastprime]

Originally Posted by ram2

McDonalds installed the automated cashiers in Seattle stores when the minimum wage was hiked there. And several businesses moved out of that city.

The Redmond's McD took out the kiosk. They are paying above $15 and still need help.

[lookingaround12345]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

As for the whole part-time argument, this begs the question: If you're working part-time, AND don't like your current wage/position, why not use the extra time to study something? Go to college, or trade school? The argument cannot be money, because the government PAYS you to go to school, in the form of several grants, as well as thousands of dollars in tax "returns" for federal taxes that were paid by wealthier individuals.

The problem with this is college has become for the most part a scam. So now you have little Laura who hated having a job. Runs away to Berkeley and signs up for a major in Shakespeare and a minor in ethnic women’s studies in Sub-saharan Africa.

After a few years little Laure has amassed $200,000 in bills and is sad she has to pay it. Now the government has to come in and forgive the debt letting colleges raise tuition. Laura still can’t find work, she realizes not even Bernie Sanders her latest hero paid $15 an hour for his staff.

The good news for her is Walmart already had for years and still does now. Better yet the government had raised the wages to $15 an hour and now even Bernie pays that much. Armed with this Laura lands a job in some nondescript office because of her degree and works for $15. She is happy with this until she finds everybody at the company make $15 an hour and very few make anything more. Apparently the top level are compensated almost entirely in stock options and also make $15 an hour of taxable income.

Still it is a tremendous gain over $8.50 an hour so she is happy it will at least cover her student loan for now. Next she is excited to find her first new place she has lived alone. Now she is from Perry and thinks $500 is a great budget. Places were renting for $350 when she left to go to college.

She goes online and searches 1 bedroom apartments to find the minimum rent is now $850 a month. With everybody making the new “livable” wages landlords were able to increase rents.

I could go on but the point is if you make an unrealistic minimum wage you don’t move the bottom closer to the top. You move the middle downwards towards the bottom. You can’t pay the janitor as much as you pay a novice software engineer. Anybody with talent will demand increases and widen the gap again.

You also have to factor in an intelligence level or disparity that can’t be out learned. You can’t hold a class give everybody “passable” grades and expect the IQ of the class to go up.

I would think something like dropping any tax on people making less than $15 would work better. That would add to the pie except for the government anyway. It’s always the government that mandates financial solutions but it is never the government that lives on less and never makes sacrifices itself. In fact most of these measures ensure their job security.

[Arcenal813]

^ repped.

Great post.

[Corrie22]

^^also repped.....excellent post

[cfenn006]

Originally Posted by lookingaround12345

The problem with this is college has become for the most part a scam. So now you have little Laura who hated having a job. Runs away to Berkeley and signs up for a major in Shakespeare and a minor in ethnic women’s studies in Sub-saharan Africa.

After a few years little Laure has amassed $200,000 in bills and is sad she has to pay it. Now the government has to come in and forgive the debt letting colleges raise tuition. Laura still can’t find work, she realizes not even Bernie Sanders her latest hero paid $15 an hour for his staff.

The good news for her is Walmart already had for years and still does now. Better yet the government had raised the wages to $15 an hour and now even Bernie pays that much. Armed with this Laura lands a job in some nondescript office because of her degree and works for $15. She is happy with this until she finds everybody at the company make $15 an hour and very few make anything more. Apparently the top level are compensated almost entirely in stock options and also make $15 an hour of taxable income.

Still it is a tremendous gain over $8.50 an hour so she is happy it will at least cover her student loan for now. Next she is excited to find her first new place she has lived alone. Now she is from Perry and thinks $500 is a great budget. Places were renting for $350 when she left to go to college.

She goes online and searches 1 bedroom apartments to find the minimum rent is now $850 a month. With everybody making the new “livable” wages landlords were able to increase rents.

I could go on but the point is if you make an unrealistic minimum wage you don’t move the bottom closer to the top. You move the middle downwards towards the bottom. You can’t pay the janitor as much as you pay a novice software engineer. Anybody with talent will demand increases and widen the gap again.

You also have to factor in an intelligence level or disparity that can’t be out learned. You can’t hold a class give everybody “passable” grades and expect the IQ of the class to go up.

I would think something like dropping any tax on people making less than $15 would work better. That would add to the pie except for the government anyway. It’s always the government that mandates financial solutions but it is never the government that lives on less and never makes sacrifices itself. In fact most of these measures ensure their job security.

This post is filled with a lot or exaggerations about college and ends with the government mandating financial solutions but never makes sacrifices on the topic of minimum wage... as if supporting people via welfare and other social programs when the current minimum wage wasn't enough for them to meet basic needs isn't a sacrifice to begin with.

[lookingaround12345]

You are only going to make demand for exceptional workers with a $15 minimum wage. You aren’t going to make it easier for those falling behind. If you want to climb up the ladder, and get your pay raised accordingly you need to do two jobs in the future. It will become more competitive than it ever has been and result basically in what we have now.