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Just curious: Why would a poor(er) person who can't afford to buy proper food have a car payment? Or a cell phone bill? If you absolutely NEED a car (in Florida's major cities, you really don't) buy a cheap used one for the same amount you'd spend on your down payment.
If for whatever reason you don't qualify, get a prepaid phone plan. Absolutely no need for car payments and phone bills.
Problem with that reasoning of the poor not needing a car in major cities is you assume that public transportation runs during the hours these people work, which isnt really the case. Many of Florida's poorest workers clock out when only cabs and uber's are still available. Covid shortened this need but ittext-decoratiooon.
Another flaw in that reasoning is the major cities are simply not affordable for them to live in, they need to traverse to smaller low cost cities. I don't know any way to make an Orlando/Tampa/Jacksonville/Miami rent on minimum wage. So the distance makes a car mandatory.
Another issue with this logic is that driving a beater is a valid option. These cars often end up costing more than a car with payments. I would expect poor people to be able to change fluids and do basic maintenance, but when a starter/alternator/heads ect blow you really cant expect minimum wager to handle it on their own (otherwise they would be turning wrenches for a better wage).
The cell phone thing I partially agree with you. The public library in Kissimmee is over run with homeless people charging their phones from open to close. There are so many options out there, and if you own any smartphone after probably 2014 you can get tons of apps and even free lines to survive on. Just need to find a free wifi access point... access to that is not a promise. No job out there in the minimum wage world will hire you without a contact number and reliable transportation. Just a reality of it.
So without a phone and reliable transportation you will never be able ho hold a job down and work your way out just remain dependent on government and others.
In 2018, 81.9 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were
paid at hourly rates, representing 58.5 percent of all wage and salary
workers. Among those paid by the hour, 434,000 workers earned exactly
the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.3 million
had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.7 million workers
with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 2.1percent of all
hourly paid workers
The estimates of workers paid at or
below the federal minimum wage are based solely on the hourly wage they report, which does not include overtime pay,
tips, or commissions.
The industry with the highest percentage of workers earning hourly wages at or below the federal minimum
wage was leisure and hospitality (11 percent). About three-fifths of all workers paid at or below the federal minimum
wage were employed in this industry, almost entirely in restaurants and other food services. For many of these workers,
tips may supplement the hourly wages received. (See table 5.)
Keep in mind that no one in Florida is supposed to be currently making the federal minimum wage. Florida is one of many states that has laws or rules setting the state minimum higher than that. So the mire useful number in the context of this discussion is how many/what percentage of Floridians are making $8.56, which is the state minimum wage for 2020.
Just curious: Why would a poor(er) person who can't afford to buy proper food have a car payment? Or a cell phone bill? If you absolutely NEED a car (in Florida's major cities, you really don't) buy a cheap used one for the same amount you'd spend on your down payment.
If for whatever reason you don't qualify, get a prepaid phone plan. Absolutely no need for car payments and phone bills.
You beat me to it. Lol.
On what planet do poor people have expensive cell phone plans and car payments as some sort of requirement? Even I pay just $15/mo for a cell phone plan. And cars are an absolute luxury. I've had plenty of employees who cycle or ride a bus to work just fine. I see plenty of workers riding bicycles to work in the area I live. A car payment is dumb under any circumstances, of course. It's not OUR problem if people can't manage their finances. That's not justification for increased wage laws.
On what planet do poor people have expensive cell phone plans and car payments as some sort of requirement? Even I pay just $15/mo for a cell phone plan. And cars are an absolute luxury. I've had plenty of employees who cycle or ride a bus to work just fine. I see plenty of workers riding bicycles to work in the area I live. A car payment is dumb under any circumstances, of course. It's not OUR problem if people can't manage their finances. That's not justification for increased wage laws.
I’m an engineer. A well-established one at that. I have not had a car in two years. Main reason being, with the expenses I have, I do not want to dish out another ~$400 + insurance per month on something that I’ve learned I can get by without.
Will I get one eventually? Sure, eventually. But for now, Uber, bus (yes, that thing that people like to sneer at) Sunrail, etc, work fine. When I need to be on the road, I rent. Normally one weekend/month for kids soccer games/tournaments out of town (which is also a luxury.)
It’s funny, when I lost my car (following divorce) I thought the world was going to end. Slowly but surely, I learned to manage, quite efficiently, without.
I’m an engineer. A well-established one at that. I have not had a car in two years. Main reason being, with the expenses I have, I do not want to dish out another ~$400 + insurance per month on something that I’ve learned I can get by without.
Will I get one eventually? Sure, eventually. But for now, Uber, bus (yes, that thing that people like to sneer at) Sunrail, etc, work fine. When I need to be on the road, I rent. Normally one weekend/month for kids soccer games/tournaments out of town (which is also a luxury.)
It’s funny, when I lost my car (following divorce) I thought the world was going to end. Slowly but surely, I learned to manage, quite efficiently, without.
Nothing wrong with public transportation if it runs during the time you need to commute. Nothing wrong with Ridesharing either if you can afford it.
You'll find that most people working minimum wage have to work schedules that end up being surge pricing like nights weekends and holidays. That is even if the distance needed to travel is even feasible to use ridesharing.. ever try calling out from work because you cant afford to get to or home from work??? Not going to have or even justify having a job much longer.
Nothing wrong with public transportation if it runs during the time you need to commute. Nothing wrong with Ridesharing either if you can afford it.
You'll find that most people working minimum wage have to work schedules that end up being surge pricing like nights weekends and holidays. That is even if the distance needed to travel is even feasible to use ridesharing.. ever try calling out from work because you cant afford to get to or home from work??? Not going to have or even justify having a job much longer.
Also, this isn't minimum wage for people living in the city with accessible public transportation.
It's minimum wage, period. Why is this conversation excluding everyone who doesn't live in a city with accessible public transportation?
Plenty of families living in the burbs, and rural areas of the state who are trying to get work. But without a car, without internet access (there are actually parts of this state that don't have internet access - it's insane), without reliable, affordable cellular service (there are parts of this state that are underserved by cellular service), they are not able to even apply for a job - let alone get one.
I think there are a lot of people on this forum who are insulated from poverty. They don't know it, they don't understand it, they fear it, it is completely foreign to them. They believe all the horrible things they hear on their chosen news source about low-rent trailer trash, or minority-"infested" slums, etc. etc - and it doesn't occur to them that "those people" would probably choose something other than living in squalor, unable to be productive members of society because frankly, society goes out of its way to reject them at every attempt.
And cars are an absolute luxury. I've had plenty of employees who cycle or ride a bus to work just fine. I see plenty of workers riding bicycles to work in the area I live. A car payment is dumb under any circumstances, of course. It's not OUR problem if people can't manage their finances. That's not justification for increased wage laws.
The government owns more than 90% of the land between I-10 and the Gulf in my part of the panhandle. What's in private hands can command a pretty dear price, and it's common for working class families to have to go north of I-10 for affordable housing that is reasonably safe and secure. So you're talking 60-70 miles round trip to and from work every day, which is not a great bike option even if you're in really good shape. Buses? That's socialism. We didn't get mass transit here until about 2004 and even now it's more decorative than functional.
Really the only two parts of the Panhandle where going car-free is vaguely workable are Tallahassee and maybe Pensacola proper.
Also, this isn't minimum wage for people living in the city with accessible public transportation.
It's minimum wage, period. Why is this conversation excluding everyone who doesn't live in a city with accessible public transportation?
Plenty of families living in the burbs, and rural areas of the state who are trying to get work. But without a car, without internet access (there are actually parts of this state that don't have internet access - it's insane), without reliable, affordable cellular service (there are parts of this state that are underserved by cellular service), they are not able to even apply for a job - let alone get one.
I think there are a lot of people on this forum who are insulated from poverty. They don't know it, they don't understand it, they fear it, it is completely foreign to them. They believe all the horrible things they hear on their chosen news source about low-rent trailer trash, or minority-"infested" slums, etc. etc - and it doesn't occur to them that "those people" would probably choose something other than living in squalor, unable to be productive members of society because frankly, society goes out of its way to reject them at every attempt.
That comment was pointing necessities of having a car and phone. The constant argument we see here in this thread is "Work Hard, improve your situation" and "A car us a luxury." Sorry, to an engineer with a 9 to 5 job and uber money it probably is. For the busboy, Barback, night janitor, a countless other night shifters clocking out midnight and after it's not.
Conversation was just going off topic again.
Problem with that reasoning of the poor not needing a car in major cities is you assume that public transportation runs during the hours these people work, which isnt really the case. Many of Florida's poorest workers clock out when only cabs and uber's are still available. Covid shortened this need but ittext-decoratiooon.
Another flaw in that reasoning is the major cities are simply not affordable for them to live in, they need to traverse to smaller low cost cities. I don't know any way to make an Orlando/Tampa/Jacksonville/Miami rent on minimum wage. So the distance makes a car mandatory.
Another issue with this logic is that driving a beater is a valid option. These cars often end up costing more than a car with payments. I would expect poor people to be able to change fluids and do basic maintenance, but when a starter/alternator/heads ect blow you really cant expect minimum wager to handle it on their own (otherwise they would be turning wrenches for a better wage).
The cell phone thing I partially agree with you. The public library in Kissimmee is over run with homeless people charging their phones from open to close. There are so many options out there, and if you own any smartphone after probably 2014 you can get tons of apps and even free lines to survive on. Just need to find a free wifi access point... access to that is not a promise. No job out there in the minimum wage world will hire you without a contact number and reliable transportation. Just a reality of it.
So without a phone and reliable transportation you will never be able ho hold a job down and work your way out just remain dependent on government and others.
Good points. I remember taking a city bus in Orlando from the airport to Casselberry because I was too cheap to get a cab when I first moved here. It took me over two hours and much of that was sitting at a station to switch buses. That's a 30 minute car ride. Orlando Sentinel talked about that at length in its "Laborland" series about the struggles of those who work in tourism.
I already talked about how shaming people for having an iPhone or Android equivalent in specs is so 2008. I got no replies to that. There are too many deals out there including BOGOs, gift cards, carrier switches, etc. and these phones last 4-5 years. Like I mentioned before, there were stories in the spring about kids submitting online schoolwork on phones. Yep. That iPhone people are shaming the poor for having is actually the family computer, and a cell phone IS a necessity nowadays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghaati
Also, this isn't minimum wage for people living in the city with accessible public transportation.
It's minimum wage, period. Why is this conversation excluding everyone who doesn't live in a city with accessible public transportation?
Plenty of families living in the burbs, and rural areas of the state who are trying to get work. But without a car, without internet access (there are actually parts of this state that don't have internet access - it's insane), without reliable, affordable cellular service (there are parts of this state that are underserved by cellular service), they are not able to even apply for a job - let alone get one.
I think there are a lot of people on this forum who are insulated from poverty. They don't know it, they don't understand it, they fear it, it is completely foreign to them. They believe all the horrible things they hear on their chosen news source about low-rent trailer trash, or minority-"infested" slums, etc. etc - and it doesn't occur to them that "those people" would probably choose something other than living in squalor, unable to be productive members of society because frankly, society goes out of its way to reject them at every attempt.
THIS. Or they overcame it and just display a negative or a just "haha I left you in the dust" attitude towards those who didn't get out. I'm not rich. I don't own a business or have a $100K+job, haven't traveled the world, nor can I be super picky about food quality due to a super high income and/or world traveling like I read City-Data posters say all the time all these years. But I am doing better than how I grew up. I want so bad for people to do what they need to do to pull themselves up out of poverty, but I think we can wish for that and have compassion for them at the same time.
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