Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sorry, but I'm not buying the argument about loss risk being especially large here in FL. How about in California and other areas out west for wildfires? How about the Gulf Coast states for similar hurricane risks? Coastal Middle Atlantic and Northeast for flooding? It just seems the companies doing in business in FL call their own shots and stop writing car insurance, but continue with homeowners or vice versa.
There is no state in the Union, other than Hawaii, that has a larger percentage of its land in the coastal threat zones. Other Gulf coast states have the inland areas to balance out their risk pool.
I also hate to tell you, but most of those other coastal areas are just as hard to find insurance in. For a long time North Carolina had no insurance carriers other than their own version of Citizens for coastal insurance for example. Up in Massachusetts, its nearly impossible to insurance a property on Barnstable County, and is very expensive with the options out there.
Florida takes those hard to insure areas and makes it the whole state.
A Hurricane in North Carolina might devastate Wilmington, but Raleigh and Charlotte will be fine. A hurricane in Alabama might wreck Mobile, but Birmingham and Huntsville are fine. A Hurricane that hits Miami, could go right up the coast and devastate half of the state of Florida. It is a unique risk.
There is no state in the Union, other than Hawaii, that has a larger percentage of its land in the coastal threat zones. Other Gulf coast states have the inland areas to balance out their risk pool.
I also hate to tell you, but most of those other coastal areas are just as hard to find insurance in. For a long time North Carolina had no insurance carriers other than their own version of Citizens for coastal insurance for example. Up in Massachusetts, its nearly impossible to insurance a property on Barnstable County, and is very expensive with the options out there.
Florida takes those hard to insure areas and makes it the whole state.
A Hurricane in North Carolina might devastate Wilmington, but Raleigh and Charlotte will be fine. A hurricane in Alabama might wreck Mobile, but Birmingham and Huntsville are fine. A Hurricane that hits Miami, could go right up the coast and devastate half of the state of Florida. It is a unique risk.
That's more bullhonky. Hurricanes are typically around 300 miles in width, so when a storm makes landfall in NW Florida for example headed northeast its leading edge of wind gusts and moisture brought around from the rear in clockwise rotation are already felt halfway to Atlanta.
There is no state in the Union, other than Hawaii, that has a larger percentage of its land in the coastal threat zones. Other Gulf coast states have the inland areas to balance out their risk pool.
I also hate to tell you, but most of those other coastal areas are just as hard to find insurance in. For a long time North Carolina had no insurance carriers other than their own version of Citizens for coastal insurance for example. Up in Massachusetts, its nearly impossible to insurance a property on Barnstable County, and is very expensive with the options out there.
Florida takes those hard to insure areas and makes it the whole state.
A Hurricane in North Carolina might devastate Wilmington, but Raleigh and Charlotte will be fine. A hurricane in Alabama might wreck Mobile, but Birmingham and Huntsville are fine. A Hurricane that hits Miami, could go right up the coast and devastate half of the state of Florida. It is a unique risk.
I have family on the East Coast-Central FL and it ahs been about 17 years since a hurricane hit. Even then it is mostly roof damage on older homes. Now a couple of years back one came close, but not any landfall and a couple of older homes had some roof damage and a few docks in the bay. Not much cost to any insurance company. Oh then family near Orlando and no problems there either.
That's more bullhonky. Hurricanes are typically around 300 miles in width, so when a storm makes landfall in NW Florida for example headed northeast its leading edge of wind gusts and moisture brought around from the rear in clockwise rotation are already felt halfway to Atlanta.
Well since you have just decided that insurance companies bad is the only issue... what is your solution? I actually have 20 years in the industry, and not as a salesperson... I have read actuarial tables and underwriting guides for two of the largest insurers, and seen the predicted claims estimates used as the reason to not write in Florida.
It is pretty clear from all the experts that the problem is high risk combined with onerous litigation system in the state, causing major insurers to not want to bother with the level of risk.
Your just punish insurance carriers scheme would leave the legal mess in place and lead to no insurance carriers here... then making Florida cover all the claims, with no reinsurance... better get ready for an income tax if that is the case. With how much Ronnie Boy wants to ***** about Biden, I am sure FEMA wont pick up the tab for our legislative and legal stupidity.
I have family on the East Coast-Central FL and it ahs been about 17 years since a hurricane hit. Even then it is mostly roof damage on older homes. Now a couple of years back one came close, but not any landfall and a couple of older homes had some roof damage and a few docks in the bay. Not much cost to any insurance company. Oh then family near Orlando and no problems there either.
People need to understand that insurance is not personal or even local. Insurance is a state wide pool. Those people who have not had claims are paying for the claims paid for the hurricanes in the rest of the state. Likewise if one finally does his your family, the rest of the state's premiums are paying for their claims. Its called a risk POOL for a reason.
what was the hurricane that came on shore....I think somewhere on the Gulf...and went all the way up to Canada...Ontario....causes a whole lot of damage all the way up....and up there too
That's more bullhonky. Hurricanes are typically around 300 miles in width, so when a storm makes landfall in NW Florida for example headed northeast its leading edge of wind gusts and moisture brought around from the rear in clockwise rotation are already felt halfway to Atlanta.
Charlie did jack for the Tampa area. It was a very small core storm with the strongest winds only about 30 miles from the center. I was pissed as we got no weather from it. So not all storms norm are very big.
People need to understand that insurance is not personal or even local. Insurance is a state wide pool. Those people who have not had claims are paying for the claims paid for the hurricanes in the rest of the state. Likewise if one finally does his your family, the rest of the state's premiums are paying for their claims. Its called a risk POOL for a reason.
That is the case in every State. Hurricanes, Tornados, Earthquakes, Wild Fires, Flooding all cost huge amounts. The State population with Insurance pays for it and in some cases all States with a National Company. My one family member just got their renewal and minimal increase and their monthly payment is not bad. Some areas pay more, even if the "pool" exists to pay for it.
I was checking out the Florida section and this thread caught my attention. I have some knowledge about this subject to contribute.
I do not, and never have lived in Florida. I do not know the building codes or processes, and do not know the insurance and other laws.
However, I have a lot of experience in the field of insurance claims.
I was one of those "storm chasers," and proud of it.
I started out is a newbie, like everyone does. But my personal interest tends towards law, especially these days with all the mass ignorance on how our rights are routinely violated in many areas of life.
Because of this, I got to know the laws around insurance claims, since it was part of my job to understand the entire process.
I eventually developed a niche within the industry of knowing how the insurance companies worked, what they were legally obligated to do, what they were legally prohibited from doing, and what they actually did in the real world, day to day.
These laws are different from state to state. But I will say that my personal experience boiled down to this: by far, the biggest fraud in the insurance industry is committed by the insurance companies, not the homeowners or contractors.
I had personal conversations with the #1 insurance claims lawyer in my state, and attended a conference of top insurance claims lawyers in the country, and learned a lot from them.
I soon realized, when I understood things from the legal side, that the insurance companies would routinely underbid the payout claim amount by around 20% to 50%.
For very large claims, it could be more like an 80%-90% underbid. Refusal to pay claims that they were clearly obligated to pay was fairly common, with some companies being far more egregious than others. Naturally, a smaller claim has less "wiggle room" to underbid, but I can assure you they underbid it. Underbidding what they are legally obligated to pay (a form of fraud) is the way they do business.
It appears to me, based on comments in this thread, that one of the big problems you have is that developers are using inferior methods for installing new roofing. If insurance companies are refusing to insure roofs less than 10 years old, it must be because those roofs are a risk that is too high to insure at any price. Imagine that: a risk that is too high to insure at ANY price. That can only be due to shoddy workmanship and/or poor materials. Most likely, shoddy workmanship.
The roofing manufacturers are constantly improving products to withstand greater and greater storm damage. The two biggest shingle manufacturers have been in business for over 80 years. They didn't do that by making materials that blow away in a mild breeze.
One thing most people do not realize is that the roofing crew who installs the roof is a major reason why roofing does or does not last. If builders are hiring incompetents, and not supervising their work, and inspectors are turning a blind eye, then you will get destroyed roofs in a major storm.
In some states, new home developers have a limitation on risk. Any problems that come up after 10 years are not their problem. Whatever these laws in Florida are currently, there could be a fund set up, paid by developer fees, which are paid by new home buyers, for future building defects. Just one idea.
Another problem is the assignment of benefits contracts. That was illegal in my state, and I never even thought of doing it. Well, I thought of it when I heard about it, but then I realized I could not do it, so I never did. If some contractors are doing this in Florida, and then fighting the insurance companies over the denial of claim or underpayment of claim, then I see no problem with it, knowing that insurance companies do routinely make false underpayments and outright denials that are actually fraud by the insurance company.
I bet you didn't know that in most states, "insurance fraud" is defined in the law as ONLY fraud by a homeowner or contractor against an insurance company, and does NOT apply to an insurance company doing it to a homeowner. Lobby money pays off, don't you know?
I have not met many insurance adjusters that I believed were "on the take" with a contractor to approve a claim that was not valid, but I have no doubt they exist. I know one contractor who I strongly suspect has this type of arrangement, but I cannot prove it. But that means the insurance adjuster is in on it. Both would be engaged in fraud.
However, every approved claim I ever saw (as in 100%) were fraud by the insurance company due to underpayment. This is not necessarily (probably not usually) the adjuster's fault. He is trained by the company to do this, and many of them probably don't even realize it.
Most insurance companies use a software program to calculate the payouts. I realized that I had to become more knowledgeable about that software and the company that makes it than the adjusters themselves. I also knew the local building codes and state laws better than they did.
I eventually knew going into a claim (a) that the homeowner had legit storm damage (I would not be involved otherwise), (b) that the adjuster should approve the claim (unless he was dishonest or incompetent, and some of them are both, though most are decent), (c) that the amount of the payout approved by the adjuster would be a "low ball offer," whether the adjuster understood that or not, and (d) that the adjuster's low ball offer did not matter, because I would later talk with the higher ups above the adjuster's head to get the claim amount corrected, based on building codes, manufacturer's warranty requirements, state insurance laws, and general understanding that the insurance companies train their people so that their people didn't know what I knew.
I have no doubt that the insurance company executives know that they defraud their customers as a way of doing business, but they also keep everyone else in the company in the dark about it. They also lobby state legislators, governors, and secretaries of state to convince them that the insurance company is always wearing the white hat, and never the black hat. And, "Oh by the way, Mr. Speaker of the House, how do we contribute to your next campaign for re-election?"
If, as some here have suggested, a claim must be challenged legally, please do not make me laugh and say how the "poor insurance company" must hire a lawyer and pay huge legal fees to defend their position. They have an entire staff of lawyers doing this kind of thing every day.
The insurance companies have an entire team of adjusters, in-house adjusters to modify low ball claims, lawyers, actuaries to figure out what the real risks are, financial analysts to determine how much they "want to" pay out so they can make their quarterly earnings numbers look good, and advertising. Lots and lots of advertising.
Insurance companies are the #2 spenders on advertising in America, after only drug companies. Most of their advertising is centered around the idea of convincing everyone that they are the good guys. You can TRUST us!
"Like a good neighbor _____ _____ ___ _____."
"You're in good hands with ________."
"_____ is on your side."
Get the picture?
When an insurance company offers low homeowner premiums, and then denies a valid claim when a storm event happens, are they REALLY offering insurance? Or is it just fraud? If they say they are offering insurance, collect premiums based on that promise, but then break that promise when the crisis happens, what is it if not fraud? There are companies that do this. And then when their insurance agents quit, they finally start paying out a few claims to make it look good.
BTW, most insurance agents, while well-intentioned, only write policies. They have no idea how the claims department really works -- as in how they REALLY work -- because nobody tells them.
Another thing to consider is that each year, every licensed insurance company in a state must provide to the state's insurance commissioner what their expected losses are likely to be, based on their predictions of weather, construction costs, etc. They must assure the commissioner that they have the reserves to handle the payouts. All of that would be a matter of public record that any Florida citizen could get. You should be able to see if insurance companies are routinely underestimating or doing it about right with maybe an occasional unexpected occurrence.
Whatever the problems are, people on all sides are going to try and persuade everyone that they are the good guys and "those people over there" are the real bad guys. The truth is likely somewhere in between.
The first step to solving a problem is understanding what the problem really is. Seems like a good first step in that is to use your power as Florida citizens to find out about how your elected representatives and their appointees/hirings are working for you.
Is the insurance commissioner making sure the insurance companies have proper reserves, and paying out the proper amounts? Are the building inspectors making sure the new home developers are properly overseeing quality workmanship rather than cutting a few corners to pad the bank account?
These government employees are your servants, not your masters. You pay their salaries to do a job for you, and to be competent at their job. Are they?
There are solutions to these problems, and it starts with the man or woman in the mirror. Find out how the system works, what the people within that system are doing, and hold them accountable.
Following Hurricane Katrina, a New Orleans attorney discovered, almost by accident, that a large insurance company hired a structural engineer who sided with the insurance company to validate a low payout. Further investigation revealed that the engineer was on the take, falsifying reports to benefit the insurance company. The engineer and a couple of executives went to prison.
That's how it is done.
Last edited by ptraveler; 06-09-2022 at 02:25 PM..
Greetings. This is my first post to this forum.
I was checking out the Florida section and this thread caught my attention. I have some knowledge about this subject to contribute........................................ .
That's how it is done.
Thanks, very good 1st post!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
